Open Carry in School

[tomrkba]

Some guy in Michigan carried in school today.

Open carry, not concealed carry, at school by Michigan CCW holders is legal. The governor vetoed that concealed carry bill.

Read/listen to the comments of the deputy and admin staff. The comments are astounding and show how schools have become little propaganda factories.

The fingerprinting check-in procedure is insane.

Read the article's comments on why OC is legal.

Direct link to video here

 

[Art Eatman]

It may be legal, but from the standpoint of peace, quiet and not having a bunch of upset folks, it doesn't come across as wise. Seems to me to be better to bring it up in conversations over a period of time, pointing out the legal and practical aspects. People need thinking time before accepting any new idea, and they think more rationally when they're not upset or scared.

 

[tomrkba]

It may be legal, but from the standpoint of peace, quiet and not having a bunch of upset folks

The video shows otherwise. The only tooth gnashing came from the school administration and a really silly deputy.

Furthermore, the video shows just how stupid schools have become. They fingerprint people when they sign in. They teach anti-rights propaganda. If we're going to continue the gun culture, we need to show through deeds and peaceful carry that the words being used against the right to keep and bear arms are lies. Children are not stupid and will notice the difference between what is said and the actions of the parents carrying at school. I think this is one of the strongest messages possible that can nullify the propaganda. I believe Art's attitude to be short sighted and the losing strategy.

 

[NavyLCDR]

It may be legal, but from the standpoint of peace, quiet and not having a bunch of upset folks, it doesn't come across as wise.

NOT carrying the gun for self protection in the only legal means available is a wiser choice because it might upset some people?

 

[smalls]

I think it was last year that a guy OC'd into a school to go vote, and had the police called. I believe he was arrested, sued and won

There was also the 18 year old who was arrested for OC'ing his rifle in Troy with the same ending.

Open Carry is getting a little bigger here in the Mitten, and authorities are being reminded with a heavy hand not to challenge that right.

 

[smalls]

And I live this quote from the comments :

For a while, I was thinking, “this is really pretty cool,” until I snapped back to reality: “this is perfectly normal, everyday behavior in a polite, armed society.”

 

[Art Eatman]

I guess what bugs me about all this is that going back over 150 years, it was considered part of basic courtesy to carry concealed, to give the appearance of being unarmed in polite company. Forget the right/wrong; it was just part of social graces.

Open carry is fine for what might be called a working gun. Cops, hunters, folks who work outdoors where miscellaneous Bad Critters can show up.

I'm all in favor of open carry being legal, same as concealed carry oughta be, everywhere. Given a choice, I'd carry concealed.

Looks to me that the real problem is lawmakers and school administrators who are real short on awareness and knowledge of reality.

 

[smalls]

I'm all in favor of open carry being legal, same as concealed carry oughta be, everywhere. Given a choice, I'd carry concealed.

Problem being that we're NOT given a choice. Open carry is the only choice for Michiganders in pistol free zones (with a CPL). Or go unarmed. If there's only one way to legally go armed, that's the way I'm going.

 

[Kiln]

I don't disagree with legal carry anywhere of either type. That said you'd have to be some kind of special jackass to carry in a school after the recent shooting when tensions are so high, legal or not.

 

[smalls]

Why? He even called both the school AND the sheriff to let them know ahead of time.

We have a school just down the street from my house, and my 2 year old daughter loves their playground. I open carried there just last week so she could play on it, since it was so nice out.

And after the recent shooting, I only see MORE of a reason to carry at schools.

 

[Kiln]

Why? He even called both the school AND the sheriff to let them know ahead of time.

We have a school just down the street from my house, and my 2 year old daughter loves their playground. I open carried there just last week so she could play on it, since it was so nice out.

And after the recent shooting, I only see MORE of a reason to carry at schools.

Given the circumstances I'd say he did fine but it would have been more adult not to carry. It looks like he carried "just because" and to stir people up. This is the kind of PR that we don't need. I don't want other gun owners making me out to be an inconsiderate jerk just because one guy wants to stir up the internet by making a video of himself carrying, which appears to be the only goal of this guy.

People like this are the reason that laws are passed against open carry in public. People who are doing it just to get a reaction.

 

[beatledog7]

... It looks like he carried "just because" and to stir people up. This is the kind of PR that we don't need. I don't want other gun owners making me out to be an inconsiderate jerk just because one guy wants to stir up the internet by making a video of himself carrying, which appears to be the only goal of this guy.

People like this are the reason that laws are passed against open carry in public. People who are doing it just to get a reaction.

Are policemen carrying openly to get a reaction? Or is it because they can achieve a cleaner draw that way? After all, concealed or not, we all know they're carrying, so they must be exercising other advantages besides stealth or courtesy to Mr. Kiln.

So how can you judge this man's intent? Do you carry? Why? He carries openly for personal protection in a place where concealed carry is illegal, right? Isn't that why we all carry, for protection?

And what about people who wear visible tattoos, or piercings? Or wear their pants half-way to their knees with their skivvies hanging out? Or a short skirt? How about a low-cut top? Aren't they just making a statement? Should each of them be seen as an "inconsiderate jerk" because he or she exercises a legal right in a way someone else might find inconsiderate or even silly? Why must we be sensitive to allowing every imaginable "preference" but not to open carry?

...you'd have to be some kind of special jackass to carry in a school...

What sort of behavior would you say it is when someone proclaims that someone else is a jackass?

Let us not forget that it was very likely the presumption on the part of the Sandy Hook shooter (and for that matter almost all mass shooters) that nobody there would be carrying that made him feel safe to execute his plans there. If it deters a mass killer, I'm all for open carry in a school or anywhere else.

 

[Sav .250]

Not all decisions are wise ones.

 

[4tsmith]

This appears to have been a protest/legal challenge.
After reading his replies to the blogs,it makes perfect sense

I should confess that unless normal by area,location or circumstance;I have generally viewed the new push for open carry as a reasonable way to protect against an incidental CC reveal.(particularly to keep activist/hysterics from the ever delightful game of gotcha)

Unfortunately it eventually leads to some loon walking through a crowded shopping center with an AR15 hanging on a three point sling,looking around for reactions,and you're left to explain why that's reasonable to people who are starting to swing pro gun rights.

Unless I really am too old,and common sense has gone totally out of style.In which case,it's no wonder that it keeps getting harder to win the debate.

 

[smalls]

...it would have been more adult not to carry

You're kidding, right?

To me thus whole thing looks like he wanted to carry in his kids school, do he called ahead of time to not cause alarm, and brought the video camera in case something bad happened anyway.

 

[JRH6856]

I guess what bugs me about all this is that going back over 150 years, it was considered part of basic courtesy to carry concealed, to give the appearance of being unarmed in polite company. Forget the right/wrong; it was just part of social graces.

My studies of history suggest otherwise. Open carry was the mark of an honest, civilized person. Concealed carry was seen as sneaky and underhanded and what criminals did. That is why so many states and communities outlawed concealed carry while continuing to allow open carry.

 

[smalls]

My studies of history suggest otherwise. Open carry was the mark of an honest, civilized person. Concealed carry was seen as sneaky and underhanded and what criminals did. That is why so many states and communities outlawed concealed carry while continuing to allow open carry.

Exactly. States such as the one we're talking about, Michigan.

 

[Kiln]

And what about people who wear visible tattoos, or piercings? Or wear their pants half-way to their knees with their skivvies hanging out? Or a short skirt? How about a low-cut top? Aren't they just making a statement? Should each of them be seen as an "inconsiderate jerk" because he or she exercises a legal right in a way someone else might find inconsiderate or even silly? Why must we be sensitive to allowing every imaginable "preference" but not to open carry?

Last time I checked, the guy that shot up Sandy Hook Elementary didn't use tattoos or a certain style of pants. I'm not blaming the gun, I'm blaming the guy behind it, which is why I think that the guy who carried through the school just for the hell of it is a jackass. What was the point? What did he accomplish? Besides bugging the school staff and the local PD just so he could post it online, what did he really pull off?

I'm just saying that just because you can doesn't mean you should carry a firearm openly in certain areas.

 

[JRH6856]

According to the laws of political physics, inappropriate political action will produce an equally inappropriate reaction.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...And what about people who wear visible tattoos, or piercings? Or wear their pants half-way to their knees with their skivvies hanging out? Or a short skirt? How about a low-cut top? Aren't they just making a statement? Should each of them be seen as an "inconsiderate jerk" because he or she exercises a legal right in a way someone else might find inconsiderate or even silly?...

Being free to communicate how and what you wish, including by your speech, by your actions, or by your dress, does not mean that doing so is without social consequences. You may be free to "communicate", but others are free to either pay attention or not. And others are also free to form opinions about you, your intentions, character, values, or beliefs based on how and what you "communicate."

 

[Geno]

4Tsmith said:

Unfortunately it eventually leads to some loon walking through a crowded shopping center with an AR15 hanging on a three point sling,looking around for reactions,and you're left to explain why that's reasonable to people who are starting to swing pro gun rights.

Oh, that! That was last year, perhaps the year before in Birmingham, MI. A 16 year old kid walked through downtown Birmingham, MI locked and loaded. Of course he was arrested, over-charged, and found not guilty.

For my part, as a former middle school and high school principal, I have no problem with a lawful carry in the building. I do believe that the gentleman would have scored more points by attending a School Board meeting, and being asked to be placed on the agenda to speak about the topic, and get the School Board's assurance that they are aware of the law, and that they will not buck it.

There's a right way, and there's a less right way. The video saws the less right way. School Board first, then open carry. It would have allowed the direct administration time to get a letter to faculty and support personnel. Do as you choose. You might even have succeeded in getting the law added to the student handbook (for parents), and the school's insights on how to make minimal any possibility of chaos. How, perhaps the district would have requested a call prior to as a courtesy? Perhaps not. But it would have engaged a public discussion. He missed an opportunity.

Geno

 

[NavyLCDR]

I guess what bugs me about all this is that going back over 150 years, it was considered part of basic courtesy to carry concealed, to give the appearance of being unarmed in polite company. Forget the right/wrong; it was just part of social graces.

I have to agree with JRH6856 and smalls....the history I have been taught was that up until the mid-20th century concealing one's firearm indicated nefarious and less than honorable intentions. That's why states enacted laws prohibiting concealed carry, and then after they prohibited it, passed laws requiring permits and background checks to conceal firearms.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I don't like young children around, especially unruly young children with oblivious parents, when I eat in a restaurant or fly on an airplane. So...applying the same opinion expressed by some regarding carrying firearms "inappropriately" or "unwisely in a certain location" to people taking children to restaurants and on airplanes - they should leave their kids at home.....

 

[Texan Scott]

Rule of law, not men.

I may or may not agree with his approach or his judgement.. but that's irrelevant.
If what he did is indisputably legal, it really doesn't matter who agrees with it.
Legal rights are still, in most of the country thank goodness, not matters of the wrong individuals' personal feelings.
That's right, ladies... we're gettin' real tired of hearing about your worries and your whining about your "feelings".

 

[smalls]

For my part, as a former middle school and high school principal, I have no problem with a lawful carry in the building. I do believe that the gentleman would have scored more points by attending a School Board meeting, and being asked to be placed on the agenda to speak about the topic, and get the School Board's assurance that they are aware of the law, and that they will not buck it.

He already called both the school AND the sheriff before hand. That's more than generous.

If he was looking for a confrontation he would have just shown up and waited for the MWAG call, and recorded THAT.

I may or may not agree with his approach or his judgement.. but that's irrelevant.
If what he did is indisputably legal, it really doesn't matter who agrees with it.

This x 10000. Someone will always disagree on carry, carry in a school, or open carry. Guess what, tough for them. No need to hurt people's feelings on purpose, but if they don't like something I'm doing that is legal, they can choose to not be around me.