Open sights - 101. Mainly for newbies.

[P95Carry]

Open Sights - 101


I started this in response to a posting by Hand_Rifle_Guy in Pax's ''Questions and Contributions'' thread we've had running a while. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=823905#post823905

He asked ...

How's about definitions of a sight picture, re: iron sights, proper vs. improper, preferably with graphic representations?

Define flash sight picture.

Explain different sight types, i.e. peep, buckhorn, Patridge, ghost ring, night sights, etc., once again with helpful graphics.

I have yet to clarify re ''Flash Sight Picture'' although I am assuming for now this means that ultra brief sight picture aquired after a fast draw and when there is a rapid target engagement. This is where grip ''muscle memory'' comes into play with a familiar weapon, such that sighting error is minimal even without adjustment.

Let's though primarily here deal with aspects of open (or ''iron'') sights, and look at the list. There is in fact as I see it, some overlap and we can simplify somewhat. Overall I am giving emphasis to handguns, but much applies to rifles also, naturally.

1] Basic non-adjustable iron sights as we might find on a handgun ... either having a rectangular notch at the rear or a ''vee'' and the foresight being probably a simple blade, sometimes with a taper toward the top. On a rifle we might see much the same except there will usually be some provision at least for rear sight adjustment .. usually in elevation. Sometimes a foresight on a rifle permits windage adjustment. Unless corrected on it .. I regard this sighting as standard ''Buckhorn''.

2] Patridge is a sight type I associate with handguns and really only means (in a generic sense anyways) sophisticated quality sights having adjustments available .. and this on the rearsight, with elevation and windage. IIRC there are examples, such as I believe on the 2nd generation S&W 686's ... where the foresight has available elevation adjustment.

3] Night Sights I am treating as being of the ''Tritium'' type .... whereby inserts in the sight body emit light thru low level radiation ...... most usefully employed on defensive handguns. Beyond these of course are the true ''Night Vision'' sighting systems, utilizing electronics for amplification of photons - for the most part showing on a screen with the characteristic green image. These are almost ''see-in-the-dark'' devices.

4] One sight system H_R_G didn't mention but which is very useful (I love them) are the laser add-ons. My personal preference is for the Crimson Trace grips .... which come into their own once light levels drop. They do NOT replace the open sights .. but they DO provide an invaluable adjunct to sighting in low light.

5] Peep and Ghost sights are in some ways in a similar category, as also are what I choose to label Match sights. These all utilize a rear aperture in some way, and the diagrams that follow further down will attempt to distinguish between them. The Peep sight is well exampled by the aperture found on an Enfield MkV Jungle Carbine. It is simply a hole in a piece of metal! The Enfield has one simple one for basic 100yd zero .... and then with a flip-up brought into play, another simple aperture but with elevation adjustment for longer ranges. They work well!

The ''Ghost'' sight principle is similar but tends to employ a large aperture with quite modest ''framing'' ... such that it does appear to be a ring. When in use, the ring becomes a blur but acts to frame the foresight picture and the shooter naturally tends to place the foresight in the center of this ''ghostly'' circle. It makes for fast aquisition and works very well for many people. Popular on many lever action carbines.

The ''Match'' as I choose to call them (again we are talking rifle really)... are again aperture in type but the rear sight has 1/4 MOA clicks on a vernier thread, to adjust for elevation and windage... so adjustment is very precise. ''Parker Hale'' were makers of fine match sights of this type. The aperture itself is usually contained within quite a lage housing about the size of a dime and frequently is a disc offering a choice of about six diameters of hole ... to suit both the shooter and the light level. Commonly also with match type sights, the foresight can also be an aperture ... making provision often for choice of insert size and the whole system relying on centering concentric circles with the target also centered.. I used this system on my match BSA MkII and it is exceptionally good.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Now to actual sighting .... the useage of open sights and what can go wrong. This is very simplified and quite unnecessary reading for those with experience. It is aimed (oops, can we call that a pun!) ... at relative newcomers ... as a reminder to help them know what to watch out for.

Each small three-diagram set that follows, shows one category of sight picture and covers three bases ...

a) - The ideal picture as it should appear (and be maintained!) ....
b) - The foresight allowed to go high (thus the shot will impact high) .....
c) - Lateral deviation with the foresight in the left side of the rear sight (thus the shot will impact to the left).

Obviously b) and c) can combine in any permutation!!

It is perhaps worth adding - I happen to favor ''plenty of daylight'' around the foresight with open sights of the rectangular notch or, the ''vee'' variety .. it seems to make for a better picture and enhances accuracy IMO - what it means is having either a thinner foresight blade and/or a wider rear sight notch. Not all may agree. Furthermore, there are many sights now that have dots of paint added .. two at the rear on each ''shoulder'' of the rearsight and one on the rear face of the foresight blade ...... I find them very helpful for rapid shooting.

OK, enough waffle ... now some diagrams. As I said ... simplified and sorry no photographs right now of actual sight examples.

======================================================
Rectangular notch rear and blade front.........



======================================================

======================================================
''Vee'' notch rear and blade front - (forsight here shown as tapered)........



======================================================

======================================================
Rectangular notch rear and blade front, with dots.........



======================================================

Sorry, the image limit is not helping me here ...... have to break this and continue ........

 

[P95Carry]

Open Sights - 101 Part II


======================================================
Simple aperture (peep) and blade front ......



======================================================

======================================================
''Ghost'' ring and blade front.........



======================================================

======================================================
''Match'' rear aperture, with front sight aperture



======================================================


It should be apparent, that in order to maintain a good sight picture there should no influencing factors to disturb it once aquired. The most common factor that does give problems for many is trigger useage ..... and coupled with that various faults in eye focussing and flinching too.

Trigger - Let us assume your trigger is reasonable on poundage, and has no creep to impair smooth travel. We'll also for convenience ignore free play and over-travel matters. The critical factor above all is the RELEASE ..... that is the moment when the best of sight pictures can be ruined. This is in fact another whole subject, tho much has been written on it elsewhere. Suffice it to say here, and as I try to explain to beginners ..... the shot should go with the thought ... ''oh, it's gone''.!! Force it to go and there is usually a problem. This applies for rifle and handgun but .. it is worth remembering that with short sight bases on handguns ... errors are effectively way bigger than realized if the sight picture is disturbed.

Focus - At the moment of release, the sight picture should be all that is held in focus (if your eyes still young enough!! ). The target should be a blur. Let focus stray onto the target and in an instant the sight picture can become aberrant and accuracy is lost. It's worth a reminder that we are still talking open sights .. ''scopes'' and ''red dots'' do not present these problems the same.

Flinch - another classic problem .. it ties in with trigger useage. It could as well be named ''fear of recoil'' ...... and can be almost any muscle action that either changes grip, trigger finger useage, or instances where the head is moved back. Again another whole subject in itself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This has purposely been kept real simple. As I said before it is not for those who are experienced, unless as a useful reminder! !! It might tho I hope encourage those new to shooting, and handguns in particular .. to retain mental pictures of the ''correct'' sight picture and discipline themselves to give this all their concentration as they practice. A good command of sight control, along with smoothness of all other operation ... WILL yield better results ... guaranteed.

I may well have omitted some things ... do please mention anyone who sees important gaps, but this is only intended as a simple ''primer''.

 

[williegee]

P95Carry,

I've been trying to explain sight alignment and sight picture to my wife for quite some time now without a great deal of success. You do a much better job of explaining it than I do. The illustrations are also very helpful. I'm going to print it out and give to my wife . Thanks!

Will

 

[P95Carry]

williegee .... I shall be glad if this just helps a few ... many of us take this stuff for granted but I do know from times when I have tried to help newer people at the range ... that getting this sight picture deal clear in the mind is crucial.

It is actually right at the core of accurate handgun shooting ... and rifle too but not quite so obvious perhaps.

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

Oh, a question now that I have my first Red Dot sight. Should I focus on the dot like I normally would with normal sights? Or do I focus on the target and put the blurry dot on the target?

Actually, this should be it's own discussion, but since this is about sights... might as well get the input while everyone has blurriness on the mind.

 

[P95Carry]

WKW ....... I generally find that Red Dots are much less critical in this regard. On balance I prefer to keep the dot crisply focussed and see the target blur out a bit but this is one of those cases where it's what works for the shooter. Also .. the focal plane for red dots seems to be effectively further away anyways ..... so less effort needed for focus.

Thing to remember here is.... we have a sighting arrangement with two variables and not three like with open sights. So, assuming the red dot has been ''dialed in'' and is set up ... it is just a case of ''coincidence'' ... dot and target.

With open sights .... what makes things so critical is that there are the two variables, just on the gun .... and they must be properly set up and maintained .... and then that combined picture set onto the target.

Scopes are much like red dots ... just two variables.. and so again ... much easier to use too. Having said that, red dots and scopes are no more forgiving of bad trigger disciplines and flinch tho!

 

[Gump]

Great info. Really usefull. Now I just need to get to the range to try it out.


Thanks,
Gump (A noobie)

 

[mete]

Mr Patridge was the only sight designer that first studied how the eye works before he designed his sight . They are usually found on handguns but work very well on rifles too. They give very precise vertical and horizontal indexing. The V notch and V post are terrible it is impossible to get any accurate vertical or horizontal indexing. Peep sights are not just for target. Depending on the dimensions , which may be as much as 1/4" hole as found in 'ghost ring' peeps they are excellent for HD or hunting. A square notch up to1/8 "works well....... Gump ,you are new , it's spelled newbie !

 

[P95Carry]

Thx mete ... glad to have any additional stuff . I am not the best historian when it comes to it!

Certainly, as you mention with ghost rings .. I am aware of numerous cases where they are more than successful on levers for instance ... for pretty accurate varminting.

Any other additions .. feel free ... bring it on.

 

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

Yes! This is quite exactly what I had in mind!

I've read quite a few posts from folks who're very new to guns who didn't have the foggiest idea about sight alignment. Without an idea of what they're supposed to look for, how's a person with ZERO experience to know what a correctly-oriented sight picture's supposed to look like?

It is particularly important for handguns, as A.) they're VERY easy to miss with by virtue of short sight radius, and B.) people who are more casually interested in gun-ownership, most especially with self -defense in mind, are more likely to only purchase one gun, which leaves long guns out of the picture.

The sight graphics and types definitions are great. I would only add that for long guns, where peepsights are more prevalent than on handguns, emphasis needs to be put on the fact that you look THROUGH the rear sight, rather than AT it, due to it's closer proximity to the eye. This has the net affect of making the rear sight blurry no matter what in a proper sight picture for long guns, and it should be stated that this is OK so long as the front sight is in focus and properly aligned. (Handguns don't suffer this near as much at arm's length.) The correct alignment is easier to achieve in a long gun by virtue of the shoulder stock/cheek weld arrangement, but people need to know that they shouldn't be trying to get all three focal plains (target, front sight, rear sight.) into simultaneous focus. Even younger eyes can't stretch THAT much, although sometimes that expectation seems to come through in explanations of sight use. I know it confused ME when I first started learning about guns!

As for the Flash Sight Picture, I wanted to get this explained as about the fastest method of AIMED, rather than pointed, fire. Defensive gun use requires a greater degree of precision in a non-LEO context due to liability/insurance reasons. (Not to say that LEO's can be cavalier about misses, but they usually have municipaliity-backed insurance specifically to adress this, whereas an ordinary person doesn't, which makes misses that much more potentialy problematical.)

With the time available, I did some research on what a Flash Sight Picture entails:

From Don Gwinn, over on TFL:

I could develop the skill if I worked hard enough, but I'm trying to get to the point of a "flash sight picture." That was mentioned above; I'll explain it in a moment. All you need to know right now is that it involves a sight picture because I'm too big and dumb to work without one. Of course, I also still drive by aligning the hood ornament or center ridge with the right lane marking; I can drive by looking ahead and letting the car follow my eyes, and I do it more as I get older, but it's not quite natural to me yet.
The other problem is that if you train to point-shoot with a given weapon, a new one with a different grip angle can throw you off. That happens with sights, too, but the sight picture allows you to check it and correct as needed. On the other hand, you should be training on one defensive weapon anyway.

The "flash sight picture" someone mentioned above means that you use the sights (thus giving you something to check) but you align them instinctively, like point shooting (so it's fast and natural.) Jeff Cooper says that to achieve the flash picture, you train in the draw, presentation and aiming over and over as much as you can. Eventually, by doing this consistently each time, you develop a "groove" and begin doing the whole process by instinct in one smooth motion. Thus you draw, set your stance, bring the gun up, safety off, and align the gun, your body and the target by instinct--so far, the same as point-shooting. But you don't allow yourself to bring the gun to shoulder height or shoot from the hip; you bring it to eye level as if you were aligning the sights by eye. When it's aligned, you take just an instant to check the sights and make sure they're aligned on target. If they are and the threat is still there, you fire.

Aha, found it! Also on TFL, the very thread I posted myself asking for a clarification. Very good sum-ups here: Whazza Flash Sight Picture?

That oughta do it. More on other subjects coming. I'll put 'em in the Library thread.

 

[P95Carry]

Yep ... H_R_G ..... good point re the ''looking thru'' and not ''at'' with rear peeps . I should have qualified that with respect to those relevant drawings. Used the damn things so much over the years I know that's the case but - certainly should have mentioned.

In fact in a sense, with the peep close with rifle shooting ... you do still have something almost of a ghost sight .. just that the surround is way bigger and the hole usually way smaller. principle is the same and yeah too . the foresight is what to concentrate on.

Ahh the ''flash sight picture'' .. well good you could recover that info ... I think I was on the right track but this covers it nicely, thx.

 

[RGO]

Here are some photographs of the sight picture with iron sights.

http://www.firearmsprimer.com/marks/marks_3.htm

 

[P95Carry]

Useful link RGO, many thx.

Let's see if we can hotlink those two pics ... it all helps ...

 

[45R]

Nice 101!!!!

 

[RGO]

P95Carry, you're quite welcome.

 

[Cosmoline]

Maybe this is for 102, but there are also TANGENT sights which can combine elements of other sights. These have no set zero, but rather are designed to have the rear sight moved up as the range increases. IMHO they are the most underutilized and underappreciated of all sight types, primarily owing to the fact that they are far too $$ for modern gun makers to use, and they require allignment with a certain kind of trajectory ahead of time.

 

[sm]

Chris - Nice 101 !

Cosmoline...like the tangents on a BHP ?

Hey Chris, you are doing a great job ...do a BHP with the Tangent Sights. Please.

 

[Gump]

This info made all the difference at the range this weekend. I would imagine any other newbies will get as much use out of it as did. I nominate P95CARRY for some sort oof award

 

[P95Carry]

tangents on a BHP ?

Steve ... I am clueless on these ... so Cosmo ... any more info or pics??

Gump. ..... glad it helped you.

''Award''?? .. Awe shucks .....

 

[Gump]

Any more info along these line will be greatly appreciated.

While this may have been "very newbieish" for most, I am sure there are plenty here that still would get a lot from info like this

 

[alwims]

P95Carry, Would you mind if I copied these pictures and gave them to my firearms instructor to use in his CCW classes?

 

[sch40]

thanks

Apparently, my girlfriend had been getting it wrong until now!

I thought I had explained it well enough

 

[P95Carry]

alwims ....

P95Carry, Would you mind if I copied these pictures and gave them to my firearms instructor to use in his CCW classes?

Yes of course you may if they help at all ... and excuse my rudeness in not having come back on your last post ..... severe brain fart methinks!

 

[alwims]

Thanks, I had already made copies of them but was waiting for you to respond before I gave them to him. "severe brain fart methinks!" You too huh?

 

[Ankeny]

whoknowswho:

I asked the same question about dot vs. target focus on Brian Enos' website. All of the big name IPSC shooters replied that I should use a target focus and see the dot secondary to the target.