Open sights, close to the eye

[NoirFan]

First of all I'll admit to not being much of a rifleman, but I find that the easiest sights for me to use are open sights, like on an SKS or SK47, but with the rear notch on the receiver close to the shooter's eye. With peep sights I sometimes feel there's no security and that the front post just floats around in the ring, but the close-up open rear sight seems rock steady. When I fool around with air rifles I get my best groups with this style of sight. Granted, this is just playing around and not serious marksmanship, but I am curious if there are any real (non-air) rifles past or present which use this sighting method?

PS: Why are SKS and AK47 sights considered bad, but CZ452 sights considered good? They're the same!

 

[Texan Scott]

I'll admit to being very fond of peep sights... if you have problems with the 'ghost ring' effect, have you tried using a smaller peep aperature? If a smaller aperature insert works for you, Tech Sights makes nice unit for the back end of an SKS, or Lyman and Williams for lever guns.

 

[Pete D.]

Open and close

+1 about using a smaller aperture.
I am curious about what you mean by "close to the eye". How close are you writing about? How many inches? Cm/mm?
Pete

 

[Sheepdog1968]

Take an Appleseed and you will learn lots about sights. A rear peep or ghost ring by many is considered the optimal iron site setup once you learn howmtomuse them. Jeff Cooper has written extensively about it somid suggest reading some of hismworkmsuch as art of rifle or his Gunsite gossip books. In general, focus on rear sight the rear peep will center itself naturally.

 

[JEB]

i have found a reciever mounted peep to be the best for me. the smaller aperture, the more precise.

 

[zhyla]

PS: Why are SKS and AK47 sights considered bad, but CZ452 sights considered good? They're the same!

There's a difference between good/bad for combat use and good/bad for target shooting. I believe the CZ452 has a significantly longer sight radius than the stock SKS and AK. I haven't handled a CZ452 but I imagine it also has "tighter" sights (less daylight between the notch and post) than the fairly loose sights that the Russians love.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

When I was a kid, if I didn't shoot a million BBs then I came awfully close. My BB guns (air rifles) were all fitted with iron rifle sights and I became very proficient with them.

I have an SKS and I'm very proficient with the stock iron sights. I find the rear sight notch to be quicker and more accurate than a rear sight aperture.

I'm like you with an aperture sight - the front sight just floats out there and there are times when I have to consciously work to center it in the aperture. With a rear sight notch it's really easy to align the front sight post in the notch - quickly.

I have the most problems with a buckhorn rear sight. It's just a weird configuration that isn't intuitive to me.

 

[Quickdraw Limpsalot]

What's all this "center the front sight in the rear aperture" business??? The point of a peep/aperture sight is that you look through the hole & put the front sight on the target. If it's a peep sight worth a cent, you don't have to monkey around with centering anything behind the front sight.

Do you spend time centering the peep sight on your bow too??? :banghead:

Try a smaller aperture & don't even think about the rear sight beyond the act of looking through it.

 

[pseudonymity]

What's all this "center the front sight in the rear aperture" business??? The point of a peep/aperture sight is that you look through the hole & put the front sight on the target. If it's a peep sight worth a cent, you don't have to monkey around with centering anything behind the front sight.

+1 to this. If the rear sight is in the correct spot and the aperature is the correct size, just put the front sight on target. One of reasons that aperature sights work so well is that you are pretty much forced to use the same cheek position on the stock for each shot - if you are off by just a small amount you cannot see through the aperature.

 

[sansone]

another fan of peep sights here

 

[mljdeckard]

I put Tech Sights on my SKS. Besides putting a M-16 style peep sight on it, it about doubled the sight radius. That and a thinner front sight post made a LOT of difference.

 

[Owen]

I'll second the "Why are you trying to center the post?" question.

 

[Sam1911]

+1 to this. If the rear sight is in the correct spot and the aperature is the correct size, just put the front sight on target. One of reasons that aperature sights work so well is that you are pretty much forced to use the same cheek position on the stock for each shot - if you are off by just a small amount you cannot see through the aperature.

Seconded? Then a "third!"

Aperture sights are supposed to be completely intuitive/foolproof. If you can see through the aperture, all you have to do is put the front sight on target. Aligning two things -- front sight and target.

Patridge or post-and-notch rifle sights require you to line up three things. Just as accurate if you're practiced and careful, but not as quick and simple.

Sounds like if you're trying to get the rear notch of a set of standard rifle sights closer to your eye, your eye may not be good enough to see the front sight in the notch clearly. (So you're pulling it closer, making the notch appear wider to your eye.) Aperture sights eliminate this problem.

 

[CrackerJim]

I just mounted a receiver aperture sight (skinner) on my lever gun. I left out the insert so it's more of a ghost ring. Way easier for me that the leaf/buckhorn style. Very easy to put the front sight in the middle of the circle and on the target.

I wear glasses with bifocals. With the peep/ghost ring style of rear sight, it doesn't have to be in focus as the center of a fuzzy ringed hole is as easy to find as a sharp (in focus) ringed hole.

The front sight is mostly in focus and the target also mostly in focus so works great. Most of my rifle shooting is standing off hand.

Jim

 

[hang fire]

The closer a open rear sight is to my eye, the more it becomes blurry and useless.

I have read the cons on an aperture rear sight and found them humorous.

If one is consciously trying to center the front sight, they have defeated the entire purpose of an aperture sight. The eye will always seek to automatically center an object within a circle, to use an aperture sight correctly, just forget it even exists. Concentrate on the front sight only, put in on target and pull the trigger.

Make a crude circle with thumb and forefinger, pick out a distant object and keep your eyes on it alone. without thought, place the circle on target, a quick check will reveal the object centered in the circle.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I'll second the "Why are you trying to center the post?" question.

Precision shot placement and distance shooting with an AR rear aperture sight. You still have to "align" the post in the rear sight aperture, both horizontally and vertically. I've been shooting AR platforms since the late 70s - all with stock iron sights. (The only optic I use is an AimPoint CompML2 - which I have to be conversant with red dot optics. I'm quicker with iron sights than I am with any red dot, and I'm quicker with Patridge post & notch sights than I am with apertures.)

 

[gazpacho]

I suppose the best example of an aperture sight would the biathalon rifle. The standard configuration of a rear aperture close to the eye and a hooded front sight (the globe) has proven to be both fast and accurate.

Other great examples would be the entire series of standard issue rifles for the US military for the whole of the 20th century. Rear peep and front post is the norm, because it has proven to be fast and accurate under stressful situations.

As to the acclaim for CZ 452 sights, the primary reason is that factory sights on most 22 rifle just plain suck. In comparison, the CZ tang sight, with graduations from 50 to 200 meters is absolutely fantastic. I have 2. BTW, a common upgrade for the rear notch blade is to replace it with a peep blade. Even though the rear sight is not close to the eye, the peep blade is still an improvement, IMHO.

 

[Owen]

you know, I've shot with quite a few highmasters over the years, and they've all told me to ignore the rear aperture.

 

[Quickdraw Limpsalot]

you know, I've shot with quite a few highmasters over the years, and they've all told me to ignore the rear aperture.

And for good reason! As I tried to imply above, the whole idea behind an aperture sight (on a rifle OR a bow) is to force you to position your dominant eye in such a way that your eye IS the rear sight, no other fiddlin' about necessary! If you're centering the front post in the rear aperture either a) your aperture is bigger than it needs to be for your light conditions or b) your aperture is too big AND too far away from your eye.