Optic Options for Fixed Handle AR?

[MK11]

So I've narrowed my AR optics down to either an EOTECH mounted on the
forearm, or an ACOG mounted on the carry handle. I think I'm leaning toward
the EOTECH, partly because of price but also because I'm more interested in
fast acquisition at closer range than a magnified sight picture for distance. But I'm a little concerned about being able to pick up the dot when it's mounted that far forward.

For those of you who have optics on fixed sight ARs, what's been your experience? Thanks!

 

[romma]

I had mine converted from a fixed carry handle to a flat top for $130. If that option interests you at all. To me it was worth the price.

 

[MK11]

Hmmm, I hadn't considered that. Can you tell me who did it? How did you like how it came out?

 

[USMC Tanker]

I had an ACOG mounted on the carrying handle of my M16A2 when I was in Iraq a few years back.

I had great performance with it, though I would prefer a flat-top because the ACOG felt so high above the rifle.

 

[MK11]

Thanks USMC (and thank you for your service). Was that the set-up where you could still see the irons under the ACOG? If so, how did that work?

 

[texlurch]

I've used a red dot and a 4X scope on my carry handle, you can still use the irons underneath.

Nice thing about dot sights in general, you don't have to worry about cheek weld, and they actually recommend keeping both eyes open.

There is also a Z shaped mount that puts the optic in front, over the barrel, so you can co-witness the irons. Haven't tried that out as of yet.

 

[MK11]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, it sort of looks like a "Scout" set-up on an AR.

 

[Chindo18Z]

MKII: Both Aimpoint Comp M series & Eotech red dots will mount quite nicely forward of a fixed A1/A2 carry handle. This set up allows for use of both red dot and co-witness of iron sights. If your optic dies for any reason, simply continue to look thru the optic and use your iron sights.

The Army's older M68 Close Combat Optic (Aimpoint Comp M2) comes with an extra cantilever mount specifically for that purpose. The Army sights come with the "gooseneck" mount already in the box. I don't know if commercially purchased versions (M2, ML2, M3, ML3, etc) come with mount included or if you must purchase separately. I ran exactly that setup for several years due to the fact that we were not yet issued SOPMOD Back Up Iron Sights (BUIS) for our M4A1s. Love Red Dots, but I don't go anywhere without irons.

The Aimpoint cantilever (gooseneck) mount is show below. Several versions are made by various manufacturers for both Aimpoints and Eotechs. Basic models go for about $55-$60; more expensive ajustables go for $135+. The high-end models allow you to adjust the sight vertically on the mount in order to co-witness any possible iron sight / BUIS setup.

http://www.mountsplus.com/miva/merchant.mvc?page=MSP/PROD/10_CARRY_HANDLE_MOUNT/AIM-RAR-174



The forward mounted setup works fine. I used it for several SFAUC training courses and in Afghanistan during 2002. You will have no problem with target/dot aquisition or zero. My initial Afghan weapon (minus later BUIS, rail, taclight, and IR) below:



Here's a mount for an Eotech:



These two vendors (among others) carry what you need...

http://www.mountsplus.com/miva/merchant.mvc?page=MSP/CTGY/EOTECH_MOUNTS

http://www.dsarms.com/products.asp?dept=63

I assume that you have an A1/A2 style non-removeable carry handle and either have or intend to purchase a forearm rail system?

I so, I would recommend NOT mounting your optic to the forearm rail. You will be disappointed with regards to accuracy and ability to retain a zero. You CAN buy very high quality rail handguards, but the ones that will provide the require rock-solid optic stability are very spendy (several hundreds of dollars). Go with the reciever (carry handle) option and the gooseneck mount .

Hope this helps.

 

[USMC Tanker]

MK11, yes you can still utilize your irons on this set up in the event of damage to the optic.

I really liked the chevron reticle of the ACOG as well.

 

[MK11]

Chindo18Z, thanks for the very detailed post (and your service too).

Romma, if you get a chance, let me know who did your conversion. I'm in CT too, if it was local.

Thanks, guys.

 

[Grunt]

Right now I'm working on building an M-4gery for the wife. What lead to this is that I originally tried to put an EOTech on the carrying handle of my old CAR-15 with a see-through mount. We've had OSI and a few others come out to the range here with that type of setup on the GUUs so I thought I'd try this. Well, I should have known better but yeah, it made the sight VERY high to the point I lost any kind of cheek weld and was pretty much down to a chin weld at best. Not satisfactory at all. My next trick was to try one of the goose-neck mounts. I had one that came with my M68 that I put on my M-4gery and wasn't being used so I tried that as well. While it did lower the EOTech to a more comfortable level and zeroed in very nicely, I was concerned about the amount of flex in the mount. After zeroing it, I tried applying a slight amount of pressure to it with my thumb while firing to see what effect it would have on the point of impact. Sure enough, my groups went to the left with that light pressure on the mount. Ok, that's not going to work either. My final solution was to get a Bushmaster flat top upper and mount the sight on it. That finally cured the high sight problem as well as allowing the sight to be mounted without any flexing to throw shots off target.

 

[Chindo18Z]

Grunt: Interesting that the Eotech was even able to fit on the M68 gooseneck. It's supposed to be a proprietary fit for the Aimpoint only. Good to know info in any event.

 

[ocabj]

I had mine converted from a fixed carry handle to a flat top for $130. If that option interests you at all. To me it was worth the price.

Considering stripped flattop uppers run for under $100, it would be more feasible to just get a flat top upper and swap everything over.