Optics dilemma for AR-15

[Sky]

Got you. I use the Vortex Strikefire mounted on my carry handle AR which has a perfect co-witness with the irons. It also comes with a 2x magnifier which I never use but I do like the optic on that AR and if doing hunting with expected ranges less than 150 yards it is my goto weapon. 3moa red dot with mount (-$150) I doubt you will see the holes on target unless it is the type that turns a different color when struck. Sorry I have not shot paper with that set up for a long time and I may be wrong.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Also leaving the scope on there even at 1x, the scope will obscure my field of view, which is why it won't be on there when the gun is at home. Inside my home I'm dealing with ranges of contact to 25 feet at the most. I don't have a large house, and so I don't need a scope on the rifle for HD. (not even 1x. It will just get in the way) The red dot I use now is only just tolerable. I'd prefer an open reflex sight to the enclosed red dot for close range.

You know your own needs better than I do, so take my advice with a grain of salt. However, a scope at 1x shouldn't obscure your field of view. The idea is to use a scope with a decent eye relief and shoot both eyes open. The combination of longer eye relief and both eyes open will let you see around the scope while still seeing the reticle and keep the field of view from being limited.

Some people cannot do this for various physical/eyesight reasons - cross dominant people seem to have a problem with this; but if you can use this technique, it works very well. The advantage is that the target and reticle are in the same plane, so you gain a tiny amount of speed over irons.

Same idea with tube red dots. Mount them a little forward (usually about right on the front edge of the upper receiver) and shoot both eyes open. The combination of unlimited eye relief and both eyes open will make the tube practically disappear as if the red dot was just floating in space (unless it is one of the really bulky red dots).

 

[Rail Driver]

I'm aware of the tactic of shooting with both eyes open, and I shoot that way some, but if I have a scope on the rifle I tend to want to shoot it like a scoped rifle, with one eye. I'm not cross dominant, so I don't have those issues to overcome. I really just wouldn't rather leave the scope on top of the rifle all the time. I got an AR in part because the platform is modular (allowing me to use many different accessories in many different ways) and I figure it shouldn't be too much to ask for a range and hunting scope (not so much a multi purpose scope - not looking for a CQC uber tactical shadow ops scope ) and mount that will hold zero when it's detached from the rifle and then re-attached. I'm aware that it's more convenient to have one optic to do it all, but that's simply not what I want.

 

[TonyAngel]

Rail, what you want is not unusual. ARs are modular and 18" builds are uber flexible with their role being dictated by the optic that is on top of them. I use mine for everything since I built it. I hardly take the carbine out of the gun cabinet anymore.

Unfortunately, modularity and convenience come at a price. I have three optics that I can switch among for my 18" build, but all of them are in American Defense quick detach mounts. I got good deals on them, but I still have around $400 in all three of them.

What I would suggest is that you just get yourself some good rings that will allow the use of some sort of torque wrench. In my experience, if you remove a scope and then re-install it in the same positio on the rail AND tighten the screws/nuts to the same torque everytime, they pretty much return to zero.

 

[offthepaper]

For a fixed power scope, there's the Bushnell Elite 3200 fixed 10X with mildot reticle. Primary Arms has them for under $200.

+1
Tony is speaking the truth.
I have that scope on a 20" AR and can shoot sub MOA @100 yds. I bought mine off of ebay NIB for $169. A very nice scope for the money.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I can understand if you want a specific piece of gear - in this case a large, fixed-power scope to shoot small targets at 100yds. From your initial post, I thought you were looking for more general solutions.

not looking for a CQC uber tactical shadow ops scope

Well, the Leupold 1-4x shotgun scope is pretty high-speed, special ops kind of gear; but we also use them for fun out here in Texas.

If you are set on a fixed-power, mil-dot scope under $200; I don't have much advice to give there. I can second the recommendation for the Burris PEPR mount as a good cheap mount that will return to with an inch or so of zero reliably (and usually better than that).

but if I have a scope on the rifle I tend to want to shoot it like a scoped rifle, with one eye.

Try it with both eyes open and see what you think. I find it gives me much better awareness of what is going on around me and is less fatiguing when I am out on the range all day.

 

[tescrex]

Burris AR-332, and Leupold Mark-AR scopes have been the best budget ones I could find. They're both around $300. The Mark AR is variable power and has adjustments for different ranges based on bullet drop for the .223. The Burris is fixed 3x, and has drop reticles as well. They're the best .223 scopes I could find for a reduced price, as I was shopping for one on my Kel-Tec. Didn't feel like spending more on optics alone than on the rifle.

I'd be happy with either, the wife is going to buy me one for Christmas.

 

[taliv]

Try it with both eyes open and see what you think. I find it gives me much better awareness of what is going on around me and is less fatiguing when I am out on the range all day.

same here. even shooting at 20+ power, i don't consciously close an eye, though sometimes it happens
in high-power, bullseye, etc, you'll often see folks put a piece of cardboard over one eye, so they don't have to use muscle to keep one open and one closed, which after a while is fatiguing.

maybe some of the high speed guys have eyelid strengthening exercises in their fitness routine, but i don't.

 

[Rail Driver]

Lol, I routinely shoot with both eyes open, I just find that the scope body (or the red dot many times) or whatever gets in the way just enough to be distracting. There's no doubt that even at magnification, keeping both eyes open is important (situational awareness for one reason), but in the end it's personal preference and what works best for me. I think one of those lever activated quick detach mounts is just the ticket... Do they make the PEPR mount with that type of hardware, or is that thumbscrew only?

I'd be happy with either, the wife is going to buy me one for Christmas.

I have to buy my own optic... I'm still trying to talk my gf into getting me a 13" TRX and a low profile gas block for graduation

 

[Sky]

Mine is thumb screw for I did not see a quick release. Not to big a deal though. Quarter to tighten and release the screws definitely a secure fit.

 

[rjrivero]

Am I the only one who finds HIGH POWER scopes to be distracting? The higher the power, the bigger the disruption in the field of view with small motions. Shooting from a bench, minimizes this effect, but off hand and position shooting the small motions can make me motion sick.

At 100 yards, 4x or so seems to be a good compromise for me, but of course this is shooter to shooter dependent.

I prefer a 1-4x optic on my AR that is doing double duty out to 200 yards or so. Going higher means for me, bench shooting or bipod shooting only. Am I the only one?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Do they make the PEPR mount with that type of hardware, or is that thumbscrew only?

Thumbscrew only. Though a handy trick with those is to tighten the screws and zero the scope. Then make witness marks on the screws and receiver. After you remove the mount, just put the mount back on and tighten until the lines match up. This is pretty effective at repeating your zero.

The quick-detach lever mounts are very nice; but it is going to cost you more - and if $200 is the budget for the scope, then I'm guessing you don't want to spend another $100-200 on the mount.

 

[Rail Driver]

You would be right, Bartholomew, I can't justify spending that much on just a scope mount. I've been giving myself fits trying to find a set of grips for my 1911 too. This whole gun thing has gotten a LOT more expensive over the past 15 years or so...

 

[Maverick223]

IMO the Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24mm would be perfect, but that isn't in the budget...so how about a Nikon Monarch 1.5-4.5x20mm (in black of course)? These don't have a mil-dot reticle, but they do have a "turkey" reticle with parallax set to close range (75yds. IIRC). It also affords a moderate weight and low profile, which is perfect for your application. It has the UCC coating and pretty darn good glass to boot. They were discontinued a while back and now can be found for sub-$200.00.

 

[Rail Driver]

I'm curious about something ... Do they make a scope with a reticle like this one?

 

[FlyinBryan]

In my experience, if you remove a scope and then re-install it in the same positio on the rail AND tighten the screws/nuts to the same torque everytime, they pretty much return to zero.

this has been my experience too, with more than one rifle, as long as they are seated in exactly the same spot, and tightened the same.

ive got several of the same scopes and have put the wrong scope on the wrong rifle before, and that was totally wacked, so now i put texas state rifle association stickers on the tubes of each and sharpie the last 2 digits of the s.n. of the rifles they should be on.

i cant say for sure they go back to exact zero, but they are definitely within .2-.3 minute

 

[Snubshooter]

I just picked up a Millet AR 5.56 specific W/ illuminated reticle for $200 (30mm tube)Midway has them for $250 I think. For the mount DEAD NUTZ used to make a lever release mount for $150 or so GGand G also makes a rocksolid zero retaining lever mount for a little more$

 

[Maverick223]

I'm curious about something ... Do they make a scope with a reticle like this one?

Yep...that'd be the so-called "turkey-plex" that is the standard reticle equipped in the Nikon Monarch 1.5-4.5x20mm that I referred to above. It is a pretty decent reticle for close engagements IMO.

 

[wnycollector]

The gun serves dual purpose, most of the time it's an at home, short range defensive weapon and when I make it out to the range, I'd like to start shooting small (1" - 3") targets at 100yds (my local range doesn't have anything longer).

I just picked up a Nitrex by Weaver 1.5-5x32 scope for $89 after $50 rebate and closeout pricing at Natchez. This is the exact same scope as the weaver grand slam. It works well close up and for punching paper out to 300 yards. Add the Burris PEPR mount you are into everything for ~$150.

Here is the link http://www.natchezss.com/Category.c...2mm Rifle Scope Matte Finish TrexPlex Reticle