Optics or Irons?

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amprecon

amprecon

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I know this has been put out there before, but I'd like to see a fresh opinion on whether most rifleman still prefer the iron sights on their rifles or whether they prefer some type of optic. For those that prefer optics, which optics are preferred, no power lighted reticles or magnification or a combination of each?

For a combat rifle have the installed optics been worth the extra bulk/weight? Or have the irons been sufficient?

I've been tossing about the idea of installing optics on my M1A and AK but am finding it hard to justify the cost. Is there enough of an advantage in their use to justify the expense?
 
I know this has been put out there before, but I'd like to see a fresh opinion on whether most rifleman still prefer the iron sights on their rifles or whether they prefer some type of optic. For those that prefer optics, which optics are preferred, no magnification lighted reticles or magnification or a combination of each?

For a combat rifle have the installed optics been worth the extra bulk/weight? Or have the irons been sufficient?

I've been tossing about the idea of installing optics on my M1A and AK but am finding it hard to justify the cost. Is there enough of an advantage in their use to justify the expense?
 
Optics are an upgrade over iron sights on the AK and FAL, not so much on the M14 type though.
 
If they enable you to hit your target better, they are always an upgrade.
 
Get better Irons for the AK something like a set of tech sights, HK sights or the krebs peep sight before plopping down money on optics.
 
The mission of the rifle? Well for whatever uses for an AK and M1A aside from target shooting, be it HD or hunting.
 
Indecision

If the enemy is advancing towards you and has reached 250 m or closer; the iron sights.

If the enemy has been engaged and has gone prone, and is at 100 m or more; the optics. This applies to the enemy tied into the trees with an SKS, or the one hidden on a balcony any where in the Middle East.

If the enemy is at 100 m or less; the iron.

If you are on Iwo Jima and are low crawling amoung volcanic basalt; the iron.

And finally, if the enemy is within a building in Fallujah, and you are going in to make a social call; the iron sights with mounted iron blade.
 
I see absolutely no reason to have optics on an AK that does not already have a mounting rail. Even then, I wouldn't do much as far as optics go. As to the M1a, the irons on it are really quite good. They are also quite good on the FAL and optics do not by any stretch "imrpove" an FAL any more than they would an M1a. FAL irons are good. Personally, I like optics on my hunting rifles, but I also like iron sights, too. I tend to keep irons on all my military or military style rifles.

Ash
 
I have an m4gery that I have an EOTECH 512 on. I think the red dot is 100X easier than using the iron sights.

However, on my YUGO AK... I'm keeping it stock the way it is. I love the iron sights on AK's.
 
Optics are good. Well, good optics are good. For faster targeting at close to medium ranges, in a much wider range of lighting conditions, a reflex or holosight can't be beat. You can read my in-depth article on the subject here:
http://www.ultimak.com/UnderstandingE-sights.htm

With magnification, you can better identify more distant targets, and aim with more precision, but it may take more time and a more precise hold since eye relief and eye position become more critical.

Look into the BAC (Binden Aiming Concept) for magnifying optics. It's a technique more than a feature, but a lighted reticle makes it work better.

Backup iron sights aren't a bad idea either, as in W.E.G.'s photo. Practice with them, too.

Getting some friends to take you to the range and try various configurations will be worth a thousand words on a forum, but the article linked above will give you some solid background beforehand.
 
I put an EOTech optic from one of my MK14s on the T56SHTF to see how it would work - it's not bad, but I think the Micro from Aimpoint is better for the AK.

T56SHTF-EOTech.jpg
 
Hard to tell if there is a rifle under there...

Frankly, I must admit I prefer iron sights because they help make me a better shooter. Anyone can shoot with optics. They can become quite a crutch and can be an impediment to being a truly great marksman.

Yeah, I know, good optics can make one very accurate indeed. But if all you can do is shoot with a scope, you are not as good as you can be. I will not criticize anyone who likes optics, it merely is a personal preference.

Ash
 
I have various optics for a FAL and ARs. But I use and practice with iron sights the vast majority of the time. Sort of like that with bipods. I'll get one but rarely use it. At least up to now. Maybe later.
 
It depends on the rifle and it's intended use.
I prefer irons 99% of the time, but red dots are really nice.
Also, I don't care much for magnified optics . . .
 
If you are trying to impress someone, get good with irons.

If you don't care what anyone else thinks and just want to put a projectile on target, reliably, over more conditions and longer distances, then use optics. There is nothing that irons can do better than a high quality and properly mounted optical sight.

For close range, low light and quick snap shots use a holographic sight. For long range precision, use a magnified scope. For something in between, use a scout mounted, low magnification scope.

The only questions left are what is the best optic to mount on your rifle, for your uses, and how is the best way to mount it?
 
If you are trying to impress someone, get good with irons.
Click to expand...

...or if you want a rifle that's sleek, light, simple and reliable, and are willing to accept what that entails...

A lot of lever guns are good candidates for irons. Ditto for a Mini-14.

Not a .30-06 boltie. Unless it's for grizzly defense, a scope will make the rifle a lot more useful.
 
Optics can be a crutch.
Click to expand...
Lots of things can be a crutch. If you are a good shooter, quality optics tailored to your intended use will let you shoot much closer to your potential.

I have yet to see anyone that will shoot better with irons than they would with a quality optic (assuming they know how to use both).

Trigger control, breathing, natural point of aim, proper position, use of sling, etc, are all still applicable.

That all said, I do like to shoot with irons for fun and challenge, but I'm not going to kid myself that I wouldn't shoot better with an optic. My SHTF/HD carbines have holosights w/ backup irons (I shoot 50/50% irons and red dot so I'm comfortable with both). If I need a gun, I want all the advantage I can get.

Midlengths.JPG



...or if you want a rifle that's sleek, light, simple and reliable, and are willing to accept what that entails...
Click to expand...
I hear what you are saying. This and my M1 carbine are among my favorite shooters.

LightRifle.jpg
 
Yes, as does cheek weld. And tell me, how would you attach optics satisfactorily to a Garand or SVT-40? SKS? Mosin? Enfield?

Ash
 
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