Original ballistic data for the old Winchester 1866 44 Henry round??

[saturno_v]

I was looking for info about this round on the web but I did not find much about it. Some info but not very reliable I think.

Weight of the bullet?? It was originally a round nose??

Muzzle Velocity and energy??

I read that it was propelled by a 26-28 grain of blackpowder.

Other than anti personnel use, for what kind of game it was used on hunting?? Practical Distance?? Accuracy??

There is still brass available to reload?? There is any niche company out there that still makes ammo for it??

Many many years ago, in an old book about historic guns, once I read an old advertisement for the Winchester 1866 which stated that the "44 Henry bullet was still capable of killing at 1000 yards" Realistically true??


Regards

 

[Dienekes]

The powder charges ranged from 25-28 grains; bullets, from 200 to 216 grains, both flat nosed and pointed. Velocity amd muzzle energy for the .44 WCF (.44-40) round with same basic bullet weight but 40 grains of powder were 1305 FPS and 792 FP. I doubt the .44 RF exceeded 1000 FPS on a good day. The truth is that I don't recall ever having seen any velocity figures for the round. I suspect the manufacturer didn't really want those figures bandies around too much. In any event, it would certainly be illegal for deer anywhere I know about today. Of course, in its day it was quite the development and no doubt got used for whatever was at hand. In terms of trajectory and power 100 yard was stretching things. 1000 yards--fantasy.

The scene in "Dances With Wolves" where Kevin Kostner dumps a charging buffalo like it was hit with a .458 Winchester is great moviemaking. In real life, the buffalo would probably have been greatly irritated and Kostner a grease spot.

As far as I know the round was last loaded pre-WWII, and the last rifle made for it the 66 Winchester. However, when the Spencer rifle and its .56-50 round makes a comeback I suppose ANYTHING is possible.

 

[NCsmitty]

The original 44 Henry was a rim fire. If you read the excerpt from the article, It seems the 28gr BP load with 200gr bullet achieved 1125fps.

The year was 1860. B. Tyler Henry, foreman of The New Haven Arms Company, had been working on a new, innovative rifle and rimfire cartridge. On October 16, Henry was granted a patent for the famous Henry Repeating Rifle. The cartridge used in this new rifle was appropriately named the .44 Henry in honor of it‘s inventor. It was of rimfire design and initially it was loaded with 26 grains of black powder and a 216 gr. lead bullet. Within a few years, the bullet weight was reduced to 200 grs. and a slightly heavier charge of 28 grs. of black powder was used.

In 1866, the plant was moved from New Haven to Bridgeport, Connecticut and its name changed to the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. The 1866 Winchester was introduced that year which featured a few improvements over the Henry rifle, one of which was the Kings patented loading gate. The .44 Henry cartridge was also chambered in this model.

In the years that followed, Winchester worked to further improve upon their model of 1866, and in 1873, their newest rifle was introduced. Winchester considered the first and most important improvement in this rifle its adaptation to the use of a longer and a central fire cartridge, holding a larger charge of 40 grains of powder instead of 28 as in the Henry. They retained the same caliber, .44/100, and the same weight of ball, 200 grains. They stated, “The effect of this change is to increase the initial velocity of the arm from about 1,125 f.p.s. to 1,325 feet per second, reducing or flattening the trajectory and increasing the power and accuracy of the arm and giving it a penetration of about 4 inches, in pine board, at 1000 yards." Winchester described it to be effective and accurate to 500-600 yards.

NCsmitty

 

[saturno_v]

The original 44 Henry was a rim fire. If you read the excerpt from the article, It seems the 28gr BP load with 200gr bullet achieved 1125fps.

Oh yes it was a rimfire round and if I remember correctly it had 2 firing pins (or one firing pin with 2 tips) to strike the rim in 2 different spots at the same time in order to reduce the risk of misfiring.

I read somewhere that is possible to make the brass from 44 magnum cases..but how can you do that?? You use some sort of "plug" for the centerfire primer??? And how you lay a new priming material on the inside of the rim??

 

[Jim K]

You can't make .44 Henry rimfire from .44 Magnum brass unless the rifle is converted to CF.

But some late Model 1866's were made in .44 CF and there was a cartridge, the .44 Henry Flat CF, made for them; it was also used in Henrys and 1866's that were converted to CF by gunsmiths.

More recenty, there have been bolts made for the Henry that had center-fire firing pins, the same as there have been breechblocks made for the Spencer in CF, and .41 Swiss bolts converted to CF.

Jim

 

[Onmilo]

First off guys, nobody in their right mind would convert an original Henry rifle that is now worth $35,000 to $100,000 on the collector market to a shootable status using any means.
Even the CEO of a large bailed out bank wouldn't do that unless he wants to prove the Feds made a grave mistake.

That being said you could convert one of these rifles, or any firearm chambering the .44 Henry Rimfire to use a centerfire version of the cartridge and you could use .44 Magnum cartridge cases as the basis of the loaded cartridge.

Making the loaded cartridges would involve cutting down the cases and thinning the case rims.
Moulding the heel based .44 bullets and handloading and lubricating each cartridge.

Converting the firearm would involve fairly straight forward methods for removing the rimfire pin or pins from the weapon and incorporating a central fire pin assembly.

There are at least two original Henry rifles and many, many 1866 Winchester rifles on the collector market that have been converted to fire centerfire cartridges.
Winchester did offer factory produced centerfire versions of the 1866 Winchester rifles and carbines near the end of the production run and most ended up going overseas.
The cartridge was known as, go figure, the .44 Henry Central Fire.

The .44 Russian centerfire, which is the granddaddy of the .44 Magnum cartridge, is dimensionally based off the Henry rimfire cartridge case and redesingned to incorporate a center fire priming system and an inside loaded and lubricated bullet.

I have been pestering Uberti USA for years to offer their Henry and 1866 lever action rifles in .44 Russian caliber, so far to no avail.

Other posters have got the original Henry catridge ballistics pretty well spot on.
A 200 to 215 grain bullet moving at approximately 1150 feet per second.

The cartridge was effective to about 200 meters tops, past that the energy levels dropped rapidly and there are some reports that bullets fired by Henry armed soldiers would not penetrate the heavy wool coats worn by soldiers of the period when long range shots were attempted.HTH

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Lots of questions.

As a Henry replica owner and yes I have even handled an original Iron framed Henry, I know a bit about the ballistics and the gun.

First off if you have an original, don't convert it. They go for between 25,000$ and 250,000$ depending on condition and provenance.

The ammo was normally 200 grn lead with 28 grns of black powder for around 1100 to 1200 fps. This puts it squarely in a 10mm handgun round worth of power with 17 rounds (if I remember right). So it is about the same as my old Glock 20.

I view mine as a toy, but I would have no qualms about short range deer hunting, varmints or rabbit. A bit heavy to carry a long way though.

Mine is 44/40WCF and yes brass is readily available. Original 44 Henry is hard to come by as it is rim fire. They guy that had the original iron framed told me that they shot the last of the ammo up in the late 60's or early 70's and it was bought back before WW-II maybe around 1935 or so. They bought a couple of cases for it when the ammo was getting scarce and continued to shoot the gun for years.

As to the 1000 yrd shot. Well, if your luck is right (or wrong depending on your perspective) it might happen. But ask yourself this, would you believe that you could reliably hit someone at 1000 yrds with a glock 20?