Our Friend...the Fifth Amendment

[Archangel14]

We keep talking about the Second Amendment, but with all the talk of confiscation we should consider our real friend: The Fifth Amendment. That's the amendment that prohibits self-incrimination (go google it and read it). It's a sacred amendment. I once defended a young man in a 3 week murder trial. The defense was self defense. In his closing argument the district attorney looked at the jury and said, "you know, the defendant's attorney keeps talking about self-defense, but the defendant himself never took the stand and told us what happened." Whoopsee! The Fifth is so sacred that you can't even suggest some wrong doing on behalf of an accused for not having explained himself. That case ended in a mistrial because of that one comment.

Another aspect of the Fifth is that no one...and I mean no one...has an obligation to speak with the authorities about anything, ever. So, what do you do when a few officers show up at your house and say, "hey, Mr. Gunowner, where are you Firearms?" What's your answer? Do you have to tell them? What if you KNOW that the authorities are out grabbing guns? Is there anything wrong with securing your firearms in a safe place outside you home? What if the authorities want to know where they are? Do you have to tell them? Here's your homework....think about all of this.

 

[zxcvbob]

The Fifth also contains the "Takings Clause" which may be our friend soon.

 

[beatledog7]

The entire BOR is under pressure. If they'll walk over the Second, they'll walk over the Fifth. After all, what's the cost of a couple of judges when you have the Bureau of Engraving and Printing in your pocket?

 

[joeschmoe]

What "confiscation"? I don't know of any confiscation? Is there some rouge police force, new unconstitutional law, or proposed new confiscation?

Did you hear this rumor at your LGS while they were trying to sell you a $3000 AR15?

There is no confiscation, there will be no confiscation. Only chickenlittles claiming the sky is falling have mentioned "confiscation". Read Heller/McDonald. Learn your rights and stop spreading chickenlittle rumors.

 

[ball3006]

Hey, joeschmoe.......where were you when that hurricane hit New Orleans a few years ago? chris3

 

[jamesbeat]

Three words for you: Universal background checks.

De facto registration.

The only possible outcome of registration is eventual confiscation, we have examples of this in recent history in Westernized English speaking countries just like ours; the UK and Australia.

It's a long shot, and I hope we can fight hard enough that it will never come to that, but please don't think for one second that it is a forgone conclusion.

 

[wgaynor]

Ever heard of a place called California, Illinois, or New York. Talk about Confiscation is real. All you have to do is listen to the politicians and turn of MSNBC.

 

[AlexanderA]

The Fifth also contains the "Takings Clause" which may be our friend soon.

It's already our friend -- it's why Feinstein & co., in drafting their most draconian gun schemes, are steering away from confiscations of existing guns. They're even backing away from making existing guns non-transferable, because if you can't sell a gun, the economic value has effectively been reduced to zero, which in effect is a "taking." If they had to compensate for every gun at the (inflated) fair market value, it would bankrupt the government.

 

[joeschmoe]

Hey, joeschmoe.......where were you when that hurricane hit New Orleans a few years ago? chris3

I went through the eye of Katrina... armed.

 

[joeschmoe]

Ever heard of a place called California, Illinois, or New York. Talk about Confiscation is real. All you have to do is listen to the politicians and turn of MSNBC.

I've not heard any politicians talk about confiscation. Only on gun boards and LGS. There are no proposed confiscations. It's a huge leap of mental gymnastics to go from proposed gun laws, to registration to confiscations. Not possible. Really, there is no legal way for them to do that.

Please read Miller/Heller/McDonald and learn what your rights are and how our government works. (I don't get MSNBC)

 

[joeschmoe]

Three words for you: Universal background checks.
De facto registration.
The only possible outcome of registration is eventual confiscation, we have examples of this in recent history in Westernized English speaking countries just like ours; the UK and Australia.
It's a long shot, and I hope we can fight hard enough that it will never come to that, but please don't think for one second that it is a forgone conclusion.

Actually it's the form 4473 sitting at your LGS that is the defacto registration. It already exists, (since '68?). NFA arms have been registered in this country since 1934. No confiscation.

Owning arms is a "fundamental right" like speech and worship. The government does not have the power to "confiscate" your rights. Any attempt to do so will fail.

 

[LiENUS]

I've not heard any politicians talk about confiscation. Only on gun boards and LGS. There are no proposed confiscations. It's a huge leap of mental gymnastics to go from proposed gun laws, to registration to confiscations. Not possible. Really, there is no legal way for them to do that.

Please read Miller/Heller/McDonald and learn what your rights are and how our government works. (I don't get MSNBC)

He brings up new york because Cuomo specifically mentioned that confiscation was on the table while they were drafting their new gun law. It IS an eventual goal http://www.examiner.com/article/new-york-gov-cuomo-supports-gun-confiscation . back in 1995 Feinstein admitted she wanted confiscation http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=blXkl9YVoHo

 

[joeschmoe]

He brings up new york because Cuomo specifically mentioned that confiscation was on the table while they were drafting their new gun law. It IS an eventual goal http://www.examiner.com/article/new-york-gov-cuomo-supports-gun-confiscation . back in 1995 Feinstein admitted she wanted confiscation http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=blXkl9YVoHo

Their eventual goal might be to see us all in chains kissing their feet, but that's not going to happen either. They did not propose any such laws, because it won't pass and would be struck down quickly even if it did pass.

The crazier thier proposals, the faster they will be struck down. That's why I fear "reasonable" "compromise" regulations, but not sweeping bans and I laugh at "talk" of "confiscation". It can never become law. No way, not possible, not now, not ever. We are as unlikely to return to legalized slavery as confiscation of arms.

 

[wgaynor]

also, as seen here:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/08/gun-confiscation-bill-introduced-in-california-we-can-save-lives/

California is proposing confiscation.

As can be found elsewhere online, Minnesota has a proposal that includes confiscation and New York politicans have already discussed it as a means to control firearms ownership.

Right now, California is already implementing door to door confiscation as seen here: http://godfatherpolitics.com/9389/california-attempts-gun-confiscation/

With so many people not being informed of these things, I am wondering who's watching the news?

 

[browneu]

California confiscated SKS rifles several years ago. After requiring registration of grandfathered arms. Its been discussed here too.

Stating it can't and won't happen doesn't change the dynamic of its possibility. Especially, when it has.

http://www.wnd.com/1999/07/3745/

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

 

[joeschmoe]

With so many people not being informed of these things, I am wondering who's watching the news?

Some of us don't hang on every word from Nancy Grace and Anderson Cooper as gospel.
Some of us KNOW that such things are just hype and scare tactics. Not going to happen.

From you own link:

"Gun confiscation in a bankrupt state like California is no easy task. In fact, it’s basically impossible"

 

[76shuvlinoff]

She (they) tried before, and will again and again.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=22d_1357617606

 

[LiENUS]

Their eventual goal might be to see us all in chains kissing their feet, but that's not going to happen either. They did not propose any such laws, because it won't pass and would be struck down quickly even if it did pass.

The crazier thier proposals, the faster they will be struck down. That's why I fear "reasonable" "compromise" regulations, but not sweeping bans and I laugh at "talk" of "confiscation". It can never become law. No way, not possible, not now, not ever. We are as unlikely to return to legalized slavery as confiscation of arms.

You asserted that no politician was talking about confiscation, I pointed out two who have been talking about constitution others have pointed out other politicians talking about confiscation.

On the subject of legalized slavery keep in mind offenders are forced to work at hard labor on farms and in factories many of them are even later proven innocent...

 

[joeschmoe]

So I've checked each of those links and I cannot confirm a single proposal (much less a vote, not even close to law) for confiscation by any government, local or federal. Just talk. Not that any such law would survive challenge.

This was the closest; "and even a bill that allows potential confiscation of the state’s 166,000 legally registered semi-automatic rifles"

... but I could not find this "bill", apparently that "bill" has never been seen by any actual human eyes. Just myth.


Can anyone give me a link to a single law, or even proposed law on confiscation? I can't find one. Even though I know it can't pass, and would be struck down if it did.

 

[joeschmoe]

You asserted that no politician was talking about confiscation, I pointed out two who have been talking about constitution others have pointed out other politicians talking about confiscation.

On the subject of legalized slavery keep in mind offenders are forced to work at hard labor on farms and in factories many of them are even later proven innocent...

You are correct. I take that back, I meant laws they are proposing, not just a loudmouth on the radio, but of course, politicians are also loud mouths on the radio and will say things they know they can't propose, much less pass. I'm used to ignoring what Bloomberg or Feinstein says, because they say a lot of things that will never happen.

There is no confiscation, there will be no confiscation.

 

[Archangel14]

There is no confiscation, there will be no confiscation. Only chickenlittles claiming the sky is falling have mentioned "confiscation". Read Heller/McDonald. Learn your rights and stop spreading chickenlittle rumors.

Joe, I have no doubt that a good number of politicians would gladly confiscate your firearms if given an opportunity. None. Human history is filled with acts under color of law whereby the authorities confiscated weaponry. Having gone through Katrina I am utterly shocked that you are not aware that the authorities spent some of their scarce time going door to door taking firearms from law abiding folks. They worked off of registration lists. These unlawful, politically driven acts helped get the Castle Doctrine passed. While muggers, rapists, thieves, and general mayhem-types were busy taking apart what was left of post-Katrina New Orleans, your fine police were busy going the doors of people who were hunkered down, grabbing their firearms. I really want to say a few rude things about your thought process on this issue, but will use better judgment.

 

[Archangel14]

I may also add that here in California we have a vocal movement by some of our fellow citizens to confiscate ALL firearms. They are being led by two very powerful politicians. The "it will never happen" mentality is what allows such fiends to follow through. Sit back and enjoy the sun and an ice tea if you don't care, but there are, IN FACT, thousands of people working very hard, spending much of their time, to make sure that everyday, law abiding folks never touch a firearm again.

"Won't ever happen"......my God, what a baseless conclusion.

 

[joeschmoe]

Having gone through Katrina I am utterly shocked that you are not aware that the authorities spent some of their scarce time going door to door taking firearms from law abiding folks. They worked off of registration lists. These unlawful, politically driven acts helped get the Castle Doctrine passed. While muggers, rapists, thieves, and general mayhem-types were busy taking apart what was left of post-Katrina New Orleans, your fine police were busy going the doors of people who were hunkered down, grabbing their firearms. I really want to say a few rude things about your thought process on this issue, but will use better judgment.

I thought this thread was about the law? As you said "unlawful". Those cops violated the 4th and 5th amendments as much as the 2nd.
They certainly weren't my police. I was as outraged as you by what happened, and would have supported anyone who resisted such actions, as anyone should if it ever happens again.
But if we are talking about law... then the recent SCOTUS cases on the 2nd (Heller/McDonald) trump everything else. That is the law.

 

[joeschmoe]

I may also add that here in California we have a vocal movement by some of our fellow citizens to confiscate ALL firearms. They are being led by two very powerful politicians. The "it will never happen" mentality is what allows such fiends to follow through. Sit back and enjoy the sun and an ice tea if you don't care, but there are, IN FACT, thousands of people working very hard, spending much of their time, to make sure that everyday, law abiding folks never touch a firearm again.

"Won't ever happen"......my God, what a baseless conclusion.

That is their right to try, they will fail. While they are scarring people with such impossible over reaching, like confiscations, millions of people will fall for "reasonable" gun laws. That I fear. That can happen. That is what I work to prevent. Dismissing these aburd claims of confiscation is needed to keep these other laws they claim are "reasonable" from comming to pass.

The right to arms is a fundamental right and cannot be banned. The Supreme Court of the United States says so. I believe them a lot more than a bunch of hippies in cali.

It won't ever happen, because I, and millions of others won't let it happen. It's not happening now, it won't happen. If you have no faith, then you can sit back, enjoy your iced tea and the sun knowing others won't allow it to happen.

 

[wgaynor]

Actually, they are already in California, going door to door, confiscating guns from people on their list that cannot own firearms. I read a post about it this morning, but can't remember which site. When I find it I'll forward it on, but it is obvious to me that too many people on here have their head in the sand.

It is only by being aware, diligent, and knowledgeable can we prevent further erosion of our rights. Sitting back and claiming that it has not happened, and will not happen is only inviting disaster.

EDIT:

Found it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57568069/tense-moments-as-california-agents-confiscate-illegal-guns/

Now, my question for all of you... If they are confiscating these door to door now, when will they come get yours once they are outlawed and you are deemed unfit to have them?