Out of State Ownership

[TanoPapaEcho]

I live in CT and want to purchase a Barrett 82A1. My question is: Can I legally purchase and own this semi-automatic if I house it at an out-of-state facility (range)? Thanks, T

 

[RickD427]

Make sure you understand the legal differences between ownership and possession.

 

[wiscoaster]

The ATF Form 4473 and the NICS background check both require you to give your residence, and supply your driver's license for proof of that. If the firearm is illegal for you to be the buyer of in your state of residence, I don't think it's going to make any difference where you keep it.

There's a legal entity called an "NFA Gun Trust" which some people who wish to aquire NFA items without the need for meeting some of the more intrusive personal requirements set up. You might look into whether you can do that in the state where you want to keep the firearm, and if it's legal to do for that firearm in that state, then the trust becomes the legal buyer, transferee and owner of that firearm - if I understand it correctly. (And doesn't circumvent circumstances that would make a person a prohibited person). You'll probably be needing some legal advice; don't take mine as I have no direct experience with such trusts.

 

[TanoPapaEcho]

That's very interesting, never heard of a "gun trust" before. I'll do some research, thanks!

 

[AlexanderA]

Make sure you understand the legal differences between ownership and possession.

That's right, and also the difference between "transfer" and ownership.

There's a legal entity called an "NFA Gun Trust" which some people who wish to aquire NFA items without the need for meeting some of the more intrusive personal requirements set up.

The Barrett is not NFA.

A "gun trust" might help in regard to ownership and possession, but it won't help in regard to the initial transfer (an actual physical person must fill out the Form 4473). And if a long gun is purchased across state lines from a dealer, the sale must be legal in both states. If it's illegal for you to own the Barrett in Connecticut, you won't be able to buy it anywhere else. And you can't buy it from a non-dealer in another state.

If you already own it, then, yes, you can store it in another state.

 

[RickD427]

If you already own it, then, yes, you can store it in another state.

This is certainly a true statement, but you need to be careful that your "out of state" storage arrangements don't amount to a "de facto" transfer of possession. That is a common problem with such arrangements.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...There's a legal entity called an "NFA Gun Trust" which some people who wish to aquire NFA items....

Actually, a trust in not a legal entity. A trust does not own anything. People might talk in casual terms about a trust owning something or having assets, but that's only a shorthand for the more detailed, technical reality.

It's kind of like the old "I say clip, but you know I mean magazine" discussion. If one lawyer talks to another about the assets of a trust, they both know that what is really meant is the property owned by the trustee in trust. But to someone without the background to understand the shorthand, it appears that there is some legal entity called a "trust" which owns certain property. That illustrates how a casual misuse of terms can lead to a serious misunderstanding. As the Chinese say, "The first step toward wisdom is calling things by their right names."

The legal reality is that the trustee (a person -- natural or artificial (a corporation) as the case may be) holds (owns) the assets in trust, subject to the terms of the trust document, for the benefit of one or more beneficiaries. Let's look at some definitions of "trust":

1. The Free Dictionary:

   Trust
   
   A relationship created at the direction of an individual, in which one or more persons hold the individual's property subject to certain duties to use and protect it for the benefit of others.
   
   Individuals may control the distribution of their property during their lives or after their deaths through the use of a trust. There are many types of trusts and many purposes for their creation. A trust may be created for the financial benefit of the person creating the trust, a surviving spouse or minor children, or a charitable purpose. Though a variety of trusts are permitted by law, trust arrangements that are attempts to evade creditors or lawful responsibilities will be declared void by the courts.
   
   The law of trusts is voluminous and often complicated, but generally it is concerned with whether a trust has been created, whether it is a public or private trust, whether it is legal, and whether the trustee has lawfully managed the trust and trust property.
   
   Basic Concepts
   
   The person who creates the trust is the settlor. The person who holds the property for another's benefit is the trustee. The person who is benefited by the trust is the beneficiary, or cestui que trust. The property that comprises the trust is the trust res, corpus, principal, or subject matter. For example, a parent signs over certain stock to a bank to manage for a child, with instructions to give the dividend checks to him each year until he becomes 21 years of age, at which time he is to receive all the stock. The parent is the settlor, the bank is the trustee, the stock is the trust res, and the child is the beneficiary.
   
   A fiduciary relationship exists in the law of trusts whenever the settlor relies on the trustee and places special confidence in her. The trustee must act in Good Faith with strict honesty and due regard to protect and serve the interests of the beneficiaries. The trustee also has a fiduciary relationship with the beneficiaries of the trust.
   
   A trustee takes legal title to the trust res, which means that the trustee's interest in the property appears to be one of complete ownership and possession, but the trustee does not have the right to receive any benefits from the property. The right to benefit from the property, known as equitable title, belongs to the beneficiary.
   
   The terms of the trust are the duties and powers of the trustee and the rights of the beneficiary conferred by the settlor when he created the trust....

   
   
2. The Law Dictionary:

   ...An equitable or beneficial right or title to land or other property, held for the beneficiary by another person, in whom resides the legal title or ownership, recognized and enforced by courts of chancery. See Goodwin v. McMinn, 193 Pa. 046, 44 Atl. 1094, 74 Am. St. Rep. 703; Beers v. Lyon, 21 Conn. 613; Seymour v. Freer, 8 Wall. 202, 19 L. Ed. 300. An obligation arising out of a confidence reposed in the trustee or representative, who has the legal title to property conveyed to him, that he will faithfully apply the property according to the confidence reposed, or, in other words, according to the wishes of the grantor of the trust. 4 Kent Comm. 304; Willis, Trustees, 2; Beers v. Lyon, 21 Conn. 613; Thornburg v. Buck, 13 Ind. App. 446, 41 N. E. 85....

   
   
3. Nolo Press:

   ...A trust is an arrangement under which one person, called a trustee, holds legal title to property for another person, called a beneficiary. You can be the trustee of your own living trust, keeping full control over all property held in trust....

   
   
4. Wikipedia:

   In common law legal systems, a trust is a relationship whereby property is held by one party for the benefit of another. A trust is created by a settlor, who transfers some or all of his or her property to a trustee. The trustee holds that property for the trust's beneficiaries. Trusts have existed since Roman times and have become one of the most important innovations in property law....

 

[CapnMac]

Probably not a Trust, but a Corporation might work.
At least a designated officer of that Corporation, as I'm reasonably certain most of 18USC922 applies to corporeal entities. That Corporation might be allowed to use a Trust to include interstate Trustees, but it might be as easy just to have interstate officers.
Maybe.
Perhaps.
Tricky part is that corporations operating out of State are usually presumed to operate under the rules of the State they are within. A Texas corporation may operate in Oklahoma, but is expected to comply with OK law while doing so.
After having gone though this rigamarole, this entity would then have to convince an FFL in the other State to complete the sale. Which could be difficult, as being an FFL is complicated enough as is.

 

[wiscoaster]

OK, guys, thanks for the education. So sorry it won't work for the OP.