Out of state shotgun purchase....confused

[BobTheTomato]

So I have someone working with me age 20 who is from Maryland. He is here in the great state of Alabama this summer and wants to get a shotgun to shoot clays with. When he went to the store they said no purchases by Maryland residents. He was told this at Dicks sporting goods and another private shop? Is this an Alabama thing? Can he go to Georgia or Tennessee? Anybody have any idea?

Thanks

 

[newfalguy101]

My best guess it has to do with Maryland laws and or the particular shotgun he was looking at.

Keep in mind, when buying outside your homestate, the transfer must be legal in BOTH jurisdictions.

 

[Frank Ettin]

So I have someone working with me age 20 who is from Maryland. He is here in the great state of Alabama this summer and wants to get a shotgun to shoot clays with. When he went to the store they said no purchases by Maryland residents....

1. Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).
   
   
2. In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence. (In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence.)
   
   
3. In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California, and perhaps Maryland), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

 

[MAKster]

Basically the dealer just doesn't understand that federal law allows this or doesn't want to bother with the extra hassle. He's got a store full of customers and he isn't going to drop everything to research the gun laws in Maryland. I assume he would have to call the Maryland State Police to do the instant background check since Maryland doesn't use NICS.

 

[BobTheTomato]

Its a Remington 1187 which is legal in Maryland. I would understand Dicks not selling but the private store didn't make much sense. He had all of the paperwork done and the manager stopped the sale.

 

[smalls]

Sounds like they're just ignorant if federal law, and are trying to cover their asses.

 

[au_prospector]

Surely by now he bought it somewhere else.
Try a LGS, Dick's is about the last place I would buy a firearm ~ instate or not.

 

[newfalguy101]

Sounds like they're just ignorant if federal law, and are trying to cover their asses.

or are simply following the law...........

As TWO different shops have NOT allowed the sale, I would guess there is some provision in the Maryland law that makes the sale illegal.

 

[Theohazard]

Sounds like they're just ignorant if federal law, and are trying to cover their asses.

No, they're almost certainly aware of federal law, it's Maryland law they don't know about. And they probably don't care, either. So they're just saving time and covering their asses by refusing the sale.

I managed at a large LGS for a while and I work part-time at another one currently. Most gun shops do a vast majority of their sales to in-state residents. And most gun shops are well aware that they can sell a long gun to someone out of state, and they also know they have to follow the laws of that state.

Most of the time it's pretty easy to follow the laws of the out-of-state-customer's state. But when it's a state with complicated and extremely restrictive laws like Maryland, California, Massachusetts, New York, etc., most gun shops have absolutely no interest in wading through all the extra details of that state's laws just to make one extra sale every once in a while.

Most gun shops have a hard enough time following all the details of federal law combined with all the details of their state's laws. Why would they take on the convoluted laws of an anti-gun state like Maryland just to make one sale? It makes a lot more sense to just decline any customer from a state like that.

 

[Praxidike]

I wouldn't sell to a NY, CA, or MD resident either if I were in their shoes. If anything every happened with that firearm in those states, they'd come looking for the sellers with pick forks.

Is it illegal for the co-worker to get a new driver's licence for that state while he's living and working there for the next 3-4 months? Then he could use that to buy the shotgun. At least that is what I would have looked into. He does have an address I assume, is living there, and is working there. Why can't he change residences from Maryland to the state Alabama?

[edit]

AL Driver’s License Eligibility Requirements
You DO NOT need an Alabama driver’s license IF:

You’re operating a farm vehicle.
You’re employed by the U.S. federal government and operating a government-owned or -leased vehicle.
You meet any of the following non-resident situations:
You’re a member of the military (or dependent) stationed in Alabama with a valid out-of-state license.
You’re enrolled in any AL school, college, or university and have a valid out-of-state license.
You’re at least 16 years old and already have a valid driver’s license from your home state or country.
You’re at least 16 years old from a country that doesn’t require a driver’s license; in this case, you may drive for 90 days IF the vehicle is properly registered in your home country.

You are NOT eligible for an Alabama driver’s license if:

You are a teen driver and have not gone through the state’s GDL process.
Visit our Teen Drivers and Driver Permits pages for more information.
You’re younger than 19 years old and can’t provide proof you’re enrolled in school, have graduated, or have obtained your GED.
You have a mental or physical impairment that the Director of Public Safety or licensing examiner believes will prevent you from safely operating a vehicle.
You’ve been deemed a habitual alcohol or drug user.

http://www.dmv.org/al-alabama/apply-license.php

None of the above should disqualify your co-worker from obtaining an Alabama State ID card or drivers licence. You're coworker can use his MD state issued ID, a passport or birth certificate, and his social security card to get an Alabama ID... When he finally moves back to MD, he'll have 30 days to change his residence back to that state..

Here's a list of documents that he would have to choose from if he should choose to take this wrought...

 

[BobTheTomato]

Thank you for the suggestion however if he changes residency it could screw up his in state tuition where he goes to school. I'm assuming at this point that it has something to do with them not wanting to deal with Maryland law and any associated background check.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

Thank you for the suggestion however if he changes residency it could screw up his in state tuition where he goes to school. I'm assuming at this point that it has something to do with them not wanting to deal with Maryland law and any associated background check.

This is probably the bigger issue he should worry about. Might just be easier to go back to Maryland and buy it there over a long weekend.

 

[smalls]

No, they're almost certainly aware of federal law, it's Maryland law they don't know about. And they probably don't care, either. So they're just saving time and covering their asses by refusing the sale.

I understand the profit margins on guns isn't that great, but a sale is a sale. I understand covering your ass, but it's not difficult or too time consuming to figure out if that particular firearm is legal in MD, and make some money.

 

[Theohazard]

it's not difficult or too time consuming to figure out if that particular firearm is legal in MD, and make some money.

It's not just figuring out if the gun is legal in that state. You also have to figure out HOW to sell the gun legally according to the laws of that state. Some states have extra steps required to sell a gun in that state, and most LGSs don't want to go through the extra hassle and liability of figuring out the extra steps required just to make an extra sale every once in a while.

I understand the profit margins on guns isn't that great, but a sale is a sale.

In this business, it's not that simple. Every single sale opens you up to scrutiny from the BATFE (or worse) if it's not done 100% correctly. Every successful gun shop has figured out how to wade through the complexity of federal law and their state's law. Then they've repeatedly trained and instructed their employees in how to follow those laws.

When selling to a customer from a state like Oregon or Virginia, for example, it's pretty easy to figure out if a long gun is legal in that state and then just sell the gun normally. But in the highly-restrictive states like CA, NY, and MD, there are extra steps required to sell a gun, even if it's legal in that state. So, in order to make a policy of selling long guns to customers from those states, the LGS would have to do one of two things:

1. Train every employee in all the details of all the extra steps needed to sell a gun in those super-restrictive states.
   
   
2. If a customer comes in from one of those states, a manager takes the time to research all the details of that state's laws and figure out on the fly how to follow them.

Neither of those make much sense from a business standpoint. Despite the small profit margin, LGSs make money by streamlining and standardizing the process required to sell guns according to federal and state law. It doesn't make sense to add to that process by selling long guns to a customer from a super-restrictive state, especially if those customers are pretty rare.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I understand the profit margins on guns isn't that great, but a sale is a sale. I understand covering your ass, but it's not difficult or too time consuming to figure out if that particular firearm is legal in MD, and make some money.

Yep, and while you are trying to figure out this MD guy, 4 other sales walk out the door tired of waiting.

Now multiply that by 49 other states, PR, USVI, Guam, American Samoa ... etc etc.

Oh, and the penalty for getting it wrong can be loss of your license, loss of your business, and prison. PLUS .. you have to keep those records for 20 years ... so the former can happen ANY time during that 20 year period.

Now ... is all that REALLY worth the hot $10 you are going to make on that sale?

 

[BobTheTomato]

So just to update....he called a Basspro in Alabama and Georgia. Both stores told him they only sell rifles and shotguns in states that border Maryland. Not sure if it has to do with code 5-204.....(b) If a resident of this State is eligible to purchase a rifle or shotgun under the laws of an adjacent state, the resident may purchase a rifle or shotgun from a federally licensed gun dealer in the adjacent state.

He will just borrow one and need to pout until he goes back to school in Virginia.