Overpenetration

[jcneish]

G'day,

I'm just starting to get into hunting in a big way and am really chuffed about the idea of buying a new rifle. I own a .22 hornet for foxing but I want something a bit bigger for pigs and fallow deer. I'm trying to decide between the .243 and the .270 (ammo cost not a prob). I understand that the .270 has higher kinetic energy and also more momentum (I believe the question of whether KE or Momentum equates to stopping power is debatable) but I'm concerned that if I go .270 for more KE and Momentum that I may overpenetrate the game will regret not going for a .243 which will probably expend all its energy inside the animal before it exits. Any experts out there who can suggest which is better for pigs/deer????

Jarrod.

I am confident that either will be fine for grey kangaroos and wallabies so these are not a concern. I'm mainly worried about tougher deer and pigs.

 

[Deus Machina]

There are generally two school on this--expend all the energy inside and cause massive organ damage, or penetrate clear through with moderate tissue damage and a good-sized exit wound.

One assumes that pulverizing the pump room will kill quicker, and the other that blowing a hole through the walls and letting it leak will.

I subscribe to my grandpa's thought that a round should juuuuust punch out the other side.

I'm not sure what kind of deer or pigs you get down under, but a good shot from a .243 will drop pretty much any of them in the US. But a .270 would be just slightly more forgiving on your aim, and a critter with a hole like a golfball on the other side is just as dead.

And you can always buy more gentle .270 or load it down to feel like a .243, but not vice versa.

In short: Pick which you like and has more ammo in your area. A good hunting round in either will work just fine, and you shouldn't be shooting where you're worried about overpenetration continuing on anyway.

 

[627PCFan]

Either caliber will do the job. You just need to select the correct bullet/construction to get the rest of the way.

 

[Sam1911]

There's really no "too much" energy/penetration with a hunting rifle IMHO. There might be "more than required" but that's fine.

If your pigs are anything like our feral hogs, I'd go with the .270 simply because you'll have more heavy bullet choices which will give you a better chance to break bone and power through gristle if your shot placement isn't perfect.

Hunting presents you with nearly infinite possibilities in variations of animal size and construction, shot placement, range to the target, cover/obstructions, position/orientation of the animal (broadside, quartering, facing to or away, etc.), etc. While either cartridge will get the job done most of the time, a bit more power is not a bad thing.

 

[chas08]

I own and enjoy hunting with both calibers. I've taken deer and hogs with both guns. But if I had to choose between the two I'd choose the .270, Oh.. and welcome to the High Road.

 

[Fremmer]

The .243 is going to completely penetrate a small to medium sized deer. So if you consider robust penetration to be "overpenetration", then both calibers will be too much.

I wouldn't worry about overpenetration with either caliber. The .270 will give you a little more power, and the option of using heavier rounds for the hogs (which I think you'd want).

Edited to add: The .243 might penetrate a big deer, too. I know that the .270 will. Penetration is good.

 

[hardluk1]

jcneish Looking at both extrames shoot a barnes X and hit the shoulders of the hog and you can exect that it will break both shoulders and still go through with a 243 but change to a highly expansive type round like sst or maybe a heavier nosler ballistic tip and good bullet placement and the deer most likely will be on the ground died before you come down from recoil. Read up on the bullets you have in your market and just get the one thats right for the job. Both will do well. the 270 will just give more range.

 

[wombat13]

I think you'd be better off going with the .270. The .243 would likely be enough for fallow deer, but as you get more into hunting you might want to go for one of the larger deer in Oz.

http://www.austdeer.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44&Itemid=61

According to the Australian Deer Association, you've got Sambar deer that are almost as big as our N. American elk. Most hunters would say that .243 won't cut it on elk, so I suspect it would not be a wise choice for Sambar deer.

I suscribe to the one rifle school - get one rifle and know it like the back of your hand. If that's what you want to do, the .270 will offer you the opportunity to stick with that rifle as you take an interest in hunting larger game.

 

[MCgunner]

IMHO, there is no such thing in a hunting caliber as "over-penetration". That said, there IS such a thing as "under-expansion". But, a bullet that fully penetrates and expands is the desired projectile. Different game may require different bullets.

 

[Art Eatman]

If there are reasonable odds for hogs above 200 pounds, I'd go with the .270, just on "general principles". Probably better penetration through bones and meat on the way to the vitals. OTOH, if you're skillful and picky about your shots, a 100-grain .243 load would probably be plenty.

I've never worried about whether or not a bullet exits. I've had it both ways on deer, and dead always seemed like dead, to me. It never seemed to make any difference, one way or the other.

 

[natman]

This "spends all its energy inside the animal" theory is frequently misunderstood. It's not about too much penetration; it's about not enough expansion. As long as the bullet expands to a reasonable diameter and does damage on the way, through and through penetration is a good thing.

What you want to avoid is a bullet that exited because it didn't expand. What's better is a bullet that expands, even if that means it doesn't exit. What's best of all is a bullet that expands AND exits.

You don't want to power down to try and keep the bullet inside.

The 270 is a better choice for pigs.

 

[MCgunner]

Ah, with the proper bullet, a .243 is plenty for hogs. Think controlled expansion, like Barnes or Nosler Partition. However, yeah, for big hogs, I'd go with the .270 for sure and use a good controlled expansion round. .270 is overkill for deer, if there is such a thing as overkill, but it's overkilled a LOT of deer in its time. It combines long range tragectory with light recoil and plenty of power, what has made it so popular (with Jack O'Connor's writing) over the years. It seems a .270 is NEVER a wrong choice, not for most North American game excluding big bruins in Alaska.

 

[rcmodel]

This "spends all its energy inside the animal" theory is frequently misunderstood.

It also frequently doesn't work on big tough animals.

A little hole in one side and a bigger hole out the other side insures a massive amount of blood loss and a good blood trail for tracking if necessary. Any animal will die in a very short time if it's heart is pumping blood out both sides in squrts.

On the otherhand, if the bullet blows up inside and doesn't kill the animal dead right there, it can go a long ways without leaving a blood trail to follow and be lost.

There is also the matter of having a bullet that just gets inside and expends all it's energy.
What happens if the bullet hits a shoulder joint, or caked mud on a hog, and expends all it's energy there?

rc

 

[dakotasin]

no such thing as overpenetration when hunting.

use a quality, expanding bullet, put the bullet where it needs to be, hope for an exit, and you will have a stack of dead critters.

two holes are better than 1...

btw... i have and have hunted w/ both a 243 and 270, and the choice for me between those two rifles is easy - 270 every time.

good luck!

 

[rodensouth]

I have both and have hunted pigs and deer in Arkansas. I agree with those

above that both will work, but would choose .270 without question if picking

one. Close ranges are a wash, but past 150 and the .270 has allways left a

nice trail, and the .243 has left me squinting with my flashlight following sparse

little splatters.

 

[ArmedBear]

Why would it be an advantage to have a bullet that, by virtue of its low bullet weight and low energy, expends all it has in it before it can exit?

It could be an advantage to use a big, heavy bullet that expands into a giant mushroom and grinds to a halt before it exits, dumping a LOT of energy as it stops. But if there were any advantage to using a lighter, smaller bullet so it never exits, then we'd all hunt moose with a .22LR.

The .270, if it does exit, will still dump more energy on its way through than a similar .243 will if it stops inside -- and the exit wound will leave a better blood trail.

 

[Flintknapper]

7mm-08 would be my choice.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Big hogs will stop 270 gr .375H&H rounds with premium bullets with boring regularity. The .270 shouldn't be an issue when it comes to over penetration on hogs. Both the .243 and the .270 will punch though a deer and exit.

Over penetration is simply not a real life issue when it comes to killing big game. Under penetration however is especially on hogs. If you spend extensive time hunting hogs in spot and stalk conditions you will find your .243 severely lacking at times.

Hands down the .270 is a better choice for your stated application.

Over penetration is like over kill. Neither of which are issues in the real of hunting. Don't get under expansion confused with over penetration. Under expansion can be a real life problem on game when you are using a pip squeak caliber like a .243 or a .270 it is less so with larger diameter calibers. But a good bullet that fully expands and then drives through and exits is devastating on game. Not to mention deeper penetration gives you more shot opportunities from varied angles.

Overkill.... what are you afraid of, killing animal too dead?

 

[JShirley]

Welcome to THR.

The idea of keeping all energy inside the target is really more of an issue for defensive shooting, where the idea is to limit penetration for liability reasons, and also to cause massive damage. The goal is to stop an aggressor, and the defensive shooter doesn't really care if the attacker dies or not, just as long as the attack is stopped.

Hunters want a clean kill, while also not causing unnecessary damage to the meat. Penetration all the way through the prey animal is desired: it helps ensure a kill and also gives a good blood trail to track.

"When in doubt, use more gun."

 

[Sunray]

Seems you live in Australia. A .270 with the right bullet will kill any game in Australia except those big, mean, cows you have. The .243 will too, but it's not as versatile.
The right bullet is the key. Both cartridges are factory loaded with varmint bullets. The .243 moreso. Varmint bullets are designed to expand rapidly upon impact with little penetration. Deer and pigs need penetration to kill cleanly. No kangaroos or wallabies in Canada or the U.S. Suspect any deer bullet would do nicely though.

 

[hardluk1]

At the next old timers festival I will have break the bad news that the 222's and 22 hornets the old guys use will not kill hogs.. I don't own a 243 or 270 but if i did i would not feel undergunned with either one with the bullets out today for deer or hog.

 

[22-rimfire]

I would choose the 270 win (or any similar caliber in that general power range) for your utilization. I love the 243, but if I had two rifles standing side by side and ready to head for the hunt, I'd choose the 270 every time.

 

[Cosmoline]

Energy doesn't kill, blood loss leading to shock does (barring a CNS hit). So a round round that stops short and expends all its energy into the target is penetrating less tissue and killing less effectively.

It's the HOLE that kills, not the ft. lbs. Double the holes, with double the routes for blood to flow out, is much preferable to a round that runs out of steam half way.

 

[cooch]

jcneish.

The advice to use the .270 on hogs is good.

With deer, it depends on what deer you're hunting. The .243 is not legal for Sambar. The .270 is the minumum legal calibre for that specieas, and many of us consider it marginal.

Not because it cannot kill a Sambar cleanly if well placed.... but because Sambar are frequently shot through light scrub and while running. They are well known for running after receiving hits that wo0uld reliably floor many other species. If you have hit one and it's still on its feet, then you have a responsibility as a hunter to hit it again until it falls over. As the most likely shot presented under these circumstances is a raking shot at a rapidly moving target, your primary requirement is deep penetration.

Therefore I'd always recommend using projectiles at the heavy end of the scale that can be relied to not over-expand. As you've stated that cost of ammunition is not a problem, then I suggest purchasing premium ammunition loaded with projectiles designed for the job.


This 180-grain .30-cal projectle was recovered near the hip after passing through the top of the heart... something like 4 feet of penetration, yet expansion was sufficient to give me a blood-trail like this from the entry wound.



The spikey stag still ran 30 yards before piling up. Tough critters.

 

[kyle1974]

I agree.... no exit hole, usually means no blood trail.

I shot a deer this year about 60 yards away (much closer than usual), and the bullet out of my 7mm mag pretty much blew up, lost all of the lead core, and I foudn the copper jacket lodged under the skin on the opposite shoulder from where I shot teh deer.

the deer did drop since I blew it's heart out, but there was no exit hole... from a 7mm mag 150 grain bullet at 60 yards.

IT's a lot more to do with bullet performance than round performance when you start spliiting hairs