Owning a gun in my country

[d-dogg]

I see from time to time, a member from a country other than the USA post this or that about gun ownership in his or her country.

A lot of times it is either US ex-patriots, or US military guys like myself who lived a good chunk of their careers in another country (Germany for me).

I think it would be an interesting thread to have members who are citizens of other countries post up short, factual (i.e. you have checked your laws) posts on the gun ownership process/restrictions in your countries.

For example, in your reply, put your country in the title. If you have information on only a specific type of firearm, please indicate that in the title.

(don't know if this is correct - this is what I seem to recall from living over there)
Title: Germany - shotguns
In Germany you must have a hunters course, then a hunter's license, so you can apply for your waffenschein or weapons permit. It frequently helps to join a hunting club and a shooting range. You will also need a munitionsschein (ammunition permit) and the number of rounds you wish to keep onhand must be justified. Once you have all your permits, you can proceed to your local gun shop or sporting goods store who carries firearms.
Your selection will not be large, and many times the shop will have to order your gun. The same holds true for ammunition - you must normally order it.

In all, it will cost you xxx Euros to become a legal shotgun owner in Germany.


Would anyone else be interested in seeing this sort of information?

 

[gunsandreligion]

Yes this sounds interesting. Always good to know where we can move if needed.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Yes, interested to know. If we can get good info from folks who have or do live in other countries, this would make a good sticky.

 

[Gordon_Freeman]

It always boggles my mind when I think that this is the only country in the world where we can easily own a firearm and so many here refuse to do so.

 

[Ryanxia]

Sounds like a good idea.

 

[d-dogg]

Gordon, I do not know that your statement is correct regarding us being the last country where one can easily own a gun. We might learn that in South Korea there are door to door gun salesmen. Kind of doubt it, but it could be.

 

[jamesbeat]

UK (but I now live in the States)

All semiauto rifles (possibly except .22 rimfire) banned
All handguns except muzzleloaders banned, including rimfires
Lengthy, expensive and arduous process to get a licence to own a shotgun or a (manually operated) rifle.
Questionnaire with trick questions.
Mandatory membership at a range for several months prior to application.
Home is inspected to ensure guns are stored correctly in an approved safe, and a burglar alarm must be installed in the home.
Police can call at any time to inspect the premises.
'Realistic imitation firearms' including airsoft grandfathered in, but now illegal to buy, sell, manufacture, give away etc.
Air revolvers using compressed air cartridges banned and had to be surrendered or licensed.
Magazines (the kind you read) could not have a picture of a handgun on the front cover (but this may have expired).

But the good news... Silencers are legal!

 

[Cosmoline]

When they say "magazine ban" in the UK I guess they mean both types. No Bill of Rights over there. Just the Queen in her danged undies.

I wonder how many are lurking around from France, German, Spain or other Continental nations? Those countries don't tend to go quite as far as the UK but I know there's been a lot of EU pressure on them to do so. Any tales?

 

[jamesbeat]

When they say "magazine ban" in the UK I guess they mean both types. No Bill of Rights over there. Just the Queen in her danged undies.

I wonder how many are lurking around from France, German, Spain or other Continental nations? Those countries don't tend to go quite as far as the UK but I know there's been a lot of EU pressure on them to do so. Any tales?

Actually, that's not quite correct!
Semiauto rifles are completely banned in the UK, but there is no restriction on magazines.

Also, I forgot to mention that, while you can't buy 'realistic imitation firearms' any more, you can still buy 'deactivated' guns.
I used to have quite a collection of deactivated guns, including a pair (yes a pair!) of Bren guns.
Of course, the Brens were completely incapable of firing anything, but they sure looked cool in my living room...

Deactivated semiauto rifles have to have most of their internal parts machined away and the action and trigger group welded solid.
This only applies to rifles, not machine guns, so I was able to buy an Stg58 (FAL type rifle) that you could still cycle the bolt on.
It was classed as a machine gun instead of a rifle because it was fitted with a bipod!

All of my deacts had fully functional standard capacity magazines, but that's kinda academic since the guns themselves didn't work...

 

[9MMare]

It's very sad but in Germany, their CMSA members (Cowboy Mounted Shooting Assn) cannot even PRACTICE legally. And we only use black powder blanks. So somehow they do manage to legally buy and own the SA .45s, but cant shoot them?

 

[Sav .250]

When I was in Germany in 1949, To get a hunting lic you had to take a test.
Had to know all the game laws,dates,limits ,etc. No small task. You fail. No lic. When you did get it you felt dam(n) lucky. I know I did!
Not really anything to do with weapons but with out a lic....

 

[Calibre44]

Semiauto rifles are completely banned in the UK, but there is no restriction on magazines.

.22 rimfire semiautos aren't banned ... I know because I won two of them:
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Long Barelled Revolvers are also legal in .347 and .44 and semiauto .22 Long barelled Pistol are also legal (with a firearms cert of course)

Also magazines aren't banned at all ... 'Guns and Ammo' is freely available with a handgun on the front or not.

 

[ShamboPyro]

I would be interested in the gun laws in Israel.

 

[Cosmoline]

Also magazines aren't banned at all ... 'Guns and Ammo' is freely available with a handgun on the front or not.

Just out of curiosity, would carrying such a magazine around and reading it get you attacked or bothered by the police?

 

[jamesbeat]

.22 rimfire semiautos aren't banned ... I know because I won two of them:

Long Barelled Revolvers are also legal in .347 and .44 and semiauto .22 Long barelled Pistol are also legal (with a firearms cert of course)

Also magazines aren't banned at all ... 'Guns and Ammo' is freely available with a handgun on the front or not.

Yes, sorry I mentioned about semiauto rimfires being legal further up in my post, but forgot to include that further down.

Long barreled revolvers are indeed legal with an FAC, but they don't really count as handguns any more, they are carbines in the eyes of the law.
Ironic, since a crazy person bent on killing people would easily be able to make one of these into a handgun in five minutes with a hacksaw.

The magazine cover thing is definitely true, but it was only for a set period of time just after the handgun ban. I think they wanted people to stop thinking about handguns until the dust settled.
I remember that I had to get my Guns & Ammo specially ordered by WH Smith, and I had to get it out of a filing cabinet.
The ban passed after a couple of years, and they were once again allowed to display it on the shelves, so I was able to cancel my order and just buy it the normal way.

 

[jamesbeat]

Possibly. I know I used to get some funny looks from other customers when waiting in line to pay for my copy.

I remember reading about a guy who collected deactivated guns who ordered some magazines (the ammunition feeding kind) from the States.
Even though they were 100% legal and he broke no laws, the police kicked his door in, arrested him, searched his home and confiscated his deactivated guns for inspection.
When they discovered that he had broken no laws, they returned the guns to him by dumping them out of a sack onto his floor.
I think I remember reading that the experience led to him having a heart attack too.

 

[tarosean]

I spend a lot of time in Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar

Here is the just of most of those..

Conditions:

A – Applicant age must reach 21 years.

B – His criminal record must be clean.

C – Must be free from any infirmity or physical, nervous or mental illness that hampers the use of arms according to the prepared form.

Procedures:

A – A licensee provides a statement of names of persons wishing to purchase handguns to the public security (weapons, disable explosives).

B - After fulfilling conditions set out above, the statement is re-sent to the licensee in order to complete the import procedures and to provide for the public security, a list of weapons to be submitted to the concerned authority for approval.

C - Competent Authority shall complete approval procedures and provide a copy of such for the public security (department of weapons and explosives) in order to inform the licensee.


Being a foreigner I cannot own a gun here. There was talk of it a few years ago but I'm not sure it went anywhere. Sucks cause AK's are cheaper than SKS's in the states.

 

[gloucestergarand]

I obtained a Waffenbestizkarte (WBK) in Germany for my sports shooter certificate while serving as a DoD contractor from 1999-2004. At first, it was simple, just USAREUR reg, then the laws changed and so did USAREUR. Took me over a year of logging in and getting my "book" stamped reflecting shooting of different caliber handguns (my own and club owned) on a weekly basis. Then I had to take a test, had to purchase a safe, pay my fees and after about a year, obtained my WBK! Then it was fun...FranconiaJagd and other firearms and hunting/fishing supply stores throught Bayern became a playground! I see though that now, German laws have changed even more so it is probably even tougher. Anyone with an update?

 

[Calibre44]

Just out of curiosity, would carrying such a magazine around and reading it get you attacked or bothered by the police?

LOL!!! ... no we aren't a Police state just yet. My 15 yr old daughter bought me 'Gun Mart' magazine as a Christmas pressie for a laugh and said the till assistant did give her a funny look but that's probably because she is a young girl

All sorts of gun mags are available even in our Supermarkets these days. I personally haven't had any strange looks when I get my usual two per month.

 

[Calibre44]

I can only talk personal about gun ownership in the UK but I haven't found it very difficult to get my guns. I found the Police more than helpful with my application and never received any problems with the amount of guns I own for asked for. That's not to say that some people haven't of course. I'm lucky that I have three gun shops within a 10 mile radius of my house and have access to an indoor range and two outdoor ranges within a 20 min drive. Bisley is only 1 and a half hours away.

Also just for the record ... yes full-bore semi autos are banned but you can still own AR15s. AK47s, FALs etc and the like plus 50 calibres but they are in a 'straight-pull configuration' where by you have to manually pull back the bolt to eject and load the next round - no mag restriction.
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Nothing like the freedoms (for now) that you folks have in the USA of course.

 

[jamesbeat]

LOL!!! ... no we aren't a Police state just yet....

OT but one of my friends was frog-marched to a cash point (ATM) by a police officer to pay an on-the-spot fine for dropping a cigarette butt...

 

[Calibre44]

OT but one of my friends was frog-marched to a cash point (ATM) by a police officer to pay an on-the-spot fine for dropping a cigarette butt...

Wouldn't surprise me with the 'jobs-worths' you can get ... but you get those in all professions - Traffic Wardens come to mind!

 

[gp911]

Great stories, keep 'em coming! A poster not long ago recounted his experience of the Aussie gun bans. I wouldn't mind reading that one again, it was very informative.

 

[Cosmoline]

Interesting re. the straight pull devolution. I didn't know those were still viable over there. I take it you can't walk around with them.

I found the Police more than helpful

I've found our police to be exceptionally helpful as well. In fact I bought an officer's M1A out of the back of his squad car last summer right in the middle of downtown then walked off with it. I suspect we have different definitions of "helpful" ;-)

 

[goerz]

I can offer the perspective of an Italian gun owner, if you are interested.
In Italy we have a license and registration system. In order to buy any firearm and ammunition you need to be licensed. We have three kinds of license: self defense (CCW), hunting, and sporting. Any license will allow you to buy any gun and its ammo, as long as you respect the limits. Once licensed, there's no waiting time, no background checks: you are pre-authorized to buy whatever you want during the validity of the license. If you just want to keep a gun at home for self-defense you need a simpler license, which however doesn't allow you to take the gun out of home.
The three licenses give different possibilities: the defense license allows to carry concealed up to three handguns (security guards in uniform can carry openly). It's valid for 1 year and it's very difficult to get, but most jewelers and many criminal lawyers have one, for example. You must be at least 18, with a clean criminal record and no mental or physical disabilities that could hinder your judgement or your capability to use a firearm. Such medical conditions, the same for the hunting and sporting licenses, are verified by your doctor, and than by a government appointed doctor. In practice it's not very different from getting a driving license. You also need a short training at a designated shooting range, consisting in shooting about 100 rounds of pistols and carbine in competent way.
The hunting license, valid for 5 years, and the sporting license, valid for 6 years, only allow you to carry a firearm when engaging in said activities. When travelling, guns must be unloaded and secured (e.g. in the trunk of your car).
With a license we can own the following firearms (from wikipedia):

a) up to three common firearms (usually handguns, including semiauto, but all firearms not using hunting calibers fall into this category, such as 10-gauge shotguns, or some .22 rimfire rifles)
b) up to six weapons that have been specifically engineered and/or manufactured for shooting sports specifically recognized by an ordnance of the Ministry of Interior (a mysterious category devised to bring up to 9 the total number of handguns: for example, my .45 ACP Kimber 1911 is considered a sport weapon because it has adjustable sights).
c) an unlimited number of hunting weapons (both rifles, including semiauto, and shotguns);
d) up to eight antique or historical weapons (designed before 1891, regardless of when produced);
e) unlimited numbers of single shot muzzle loader replicas, for which no registration is needed;
f) unlimited numbers of airguns under 7.5 Joules of muzzle energy, specifically approved by the Ministry of Interior, which require no registration as well.

Trade and ownership of deactivated and replica (non firing) firearms is not regulated by law and is unrestricted.
If you want to have more guns, you need a Firearm collector's license, but you can't keep ammo for the extra guns.
Ammunition is strongly restricted: only 200 rounds for handguns and 1,500 for rifles and shotguns, total. Those who engage in sport competition can have a special license for up to 1,500 pistol rounds. Max. 5 kg. of powder for reloading.
Firearms allowed for hunt, for which there's no limit, are:
All smooth bore guns, with a gauge not bigger than 12, overall length more than 60 cm and a barrel length more than 30 cm.
Rifled bore guns, firing a bullet with a diameter more than 5.6mm or a case longer than 40mm, overall length more than 60 cm and a barrel length more than 30 cm.

We have an odd ban on 9mm luger semiauto pistols (revolvers and carbines are fine), which are reserved for police use. That's why the most popular caliber in Italy is 9x21, an almost exact replica of 9x19, with a longer case and the same OAL. No other caliber restriction, and no limits on handgun magazine capacity. For rifles, we have a 5 rounds limit for military weapons converted to semiauto for civilian use, and 29(!) rounds for all the other rifles, although this is still subject to debate, some argue that there are no limits on rifle magazines capacity (the law isn't clear on the issue).
With a sporting license you can shoot in designated places, some are a sort of "official" shooting ranges, sometimes former military installations, other are private grounds, which must be far from roads and houses, and not accessible by unauthorized people.

That's all that comes to my mind at the moment, but if you have some questions I'll be happy to answer, if I can.
Regards,
Goerz

EDIT: I forgot about military calibers. Here's what wikipedia says: Italian gun laws pose restrictions to the kind of firearms and calibers available to civilians. Full-automatic/select-fire firearms (machineguns), grenade launchers, destructive devices and all other kinds of military weapons are forbidden; a prohibited caliber is expressly the 9mm Parabellum, and as a matter of fact all military ammunition (such as 5.7x28mm, 4.6x30mm, .50-BMG and up) are not available to the public. On the other hand, standard military calibers such as 5.56x45mm NATO and 7.62x51mm NATO are available in civilian loads and with civilian denominations (such as .223 Remington, .308 Winchester). Semi-automatic firearms can be bought by licensees without additional restrictions.