P-38 Questions, information needed

[rduchateau2954]

Hi all, I'm selling a Ruger 1911 and have a guy offering me a P-38 in trade. I don't know much about these guns, I'm hoping y'all can help with that.

Here's what I know:
- 1943 Spreewerks CYQ
- No import / capture marking .. all appropriate nazi marking and eagle over 88 stamp
- Serial # 63XX F {appx.1943}
- original brown bakelite grips
- 2 postwar Mauser magazines.

Says it's in very good shape.

I've read a bit on the different factories and from what I can figure the Spreewerks is the less desirable of the three factories but not bad guns.

What would a value range be on these guns? Are these guns worth collecting? Are they good shooters?

Appreciate it,
Ryan

 

[jonnyc]

Great shooters. You really should give it a good once-over, but should be worth at least $600-700.

 

[Galil5.56]

I can't speak to value, but I can say if sound, it should make for a nice shooter. I might suggest if you do the purchase, to order a new recoil spring set from Wolff. I did for my Walther P1 (Post war Al frame version of the wartime P-38), and think it a wise investment. Be careful with the safety, as in rare circumstances the weapon can fire, when the hammer drops.

I'd look at how the slide fits to the frame - If the rear of the slide is far forward of the frame, I'd be leery, and I would look at the locking block, ejector, and take-down area for soundness.

I remember reading how some CYQ firing pins were especially brittle, and of course any wartime, or even post war P1/P38 can have the top of the slide cover pop-off, especially if loose from prior removal. This happens, and it's a real mess of long lost flying parts. CDNN used to have a lot of extra parts, and mags, and maybe they still do. FWIW, my P1 was the most accurate military 9mm I ever fired, and so well made it was crazy. It had a .3582" groove diameter, and loved cast bullets. Good luck.

 

[rduchateau2954]

Here are the pictures he sent. The slide looks good to my untrained eye,

Anything standing out to you guys?

(Removed)

 

[Galil5.56]

It looks nice, but it does have the slide to frame issue I mentioned... See how the rear of the slide is far forward of the back end of the frame near the hammer? Here is a photo of the P1 I had, and you can see they are flush. Might want to have some folks consider what I mention, and see if it may be an issue.

 

[rduchateau2954]

Good catch, is there any fix for that or is it just a word out gun?

 

[Galil5.56]

Good catch, is there any fix for that or is it just a word out gun?

If I recall correctly, some feel it could have been due to battering (LOTS of use, use with weak recoil springs), stretched frame, wear/peening of the locking block/area where the locking block interacts with the frame/takedown catch, wartime QC, etc. If a peened locking block/area or takedown lever, that should not be too big a deal IMO. Really would be an issue if it involved the frame.

Not trying to put down the pistol, only to give some ideas so you are a potential happy new owner. If you look at my pistol, you will see a steel hex pin in the frame, where all of this stress happens, especially since the frame is aluminum. This is why I am so big on fresh recoil springs - Hate to think how many were shot to death after the war, with super tired springs for decades.

 

[rduchateau2954]

Oh no, by all means. The whole point of this is to learn what I can and try to determine if it's a good trade. The last thing I want to learn I've made a mistake after agreeing to a trade.

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

Just a few observations from a P.38 collector.

From the photos.
Picture 1.
The finish has the dull and even look that one associates with the dipped imports.
Notice that there is no wear to the finish at all?
When you come across an original finish P.38 in that shape, you'll know it.
The Spreewerke P.38 had a bright blue finish (in your serial range) over a rough machined slide and (to a lesser extent) frame.

While the grips are from the correct maker - Posselt '5 broken lines' - IMO, they are not the correct ones for that serial range.
My Spreewerkes - note there is an 'e' following the 'k' in Spreewerke - in serial ranges from very late 'b' block
thru late 'h' block ALL came with the bright orange bakelite Posselt grips.

The magazine is post-war, not a War2 mag.

Picture 2.
Here would be the dealbreaker for me if I was buying this pistol based solely on these photos and the description.
There appears to be an importers mark on the bottom of the tang (at least it looks that way to my eye).

I'm not up on values of a Ruger 1911, but I would treat that P.38 as an import from a value perspective pending better photos with one of the bottom of the tang.

For a P.38 to shoot on a regular basis, I also recommend a re-inforced frame pistol, or at least a Post war with the fat slide.

My .02, JT

 

[rduchateau2954]

Thanks guys, I ended up passing on this one. A cool piece of history but too many little things.

I appreciate the history lesson

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Thanks guys, I ended up passing on this one. A cool piece of history but too many little things.

I appreciate the history lesson

Good move, the wartime P38s make better collectors than shooters. Later production postwar P1s with the steel frame hex insert and thick slide make the best shooters and are usually quite a bit cheaper than wartime guns too.

 

[Dibbs]

Great shooters. You really should give it a good once-over, but should be worth at least $600-700.

Not uncommon pistols. In VGC, (be critical) @ 700$. I would shoot a couple mags thru it, to be sure
the cover to the loaded chamber indicator isn't going to fly off in your face, before buying.

 

[bannockburn]

NIGHTLORD40K

My first P38 was built by Mauser in 1943. The gun was in fair condition and worked okay but definitely had seen better days since WWII. Decided I wanted something a little more modern and ended up trading it for one of those "packaged" P1s (the gun, two magazines, and a surplus holster), that were being imported at the time. Since then I have had several other P1s and one very nice P4 that I should have held on to (traded it for a S&W Model 669). Currently I have a French Made Manurhin P1 that scratches my itch for a P38 for the time being.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

NIGHTLORD40K

My first P38 was built by Mauser in 1943. The gun was in fair condition and worked okay but definitely had seen better days since WWII. Decided I wanted something a little more modern and ended up trading it for one of those "packaged" P1s (the gun, two magazines, and a surplus holster), that were being imported at the time. Since then I have had several other P1s and one very nice P4 that I should have held on to (traded it for a S&W Model 669). Currently I have a French Made Manurhin P1 that scratches my itch for a P38 for the time being.

View attachment 808519

As pretty as the Manurhin- marked guns are, they have the worst of both worlds when it comes to P38 durability, having the "thin" crack-prone slides and lacking the steel frame locking shelf. I passed on an immaculate factory nickel Manurhin P38 awhile back, but did grab this Walther marked P1 eventually. Of course, the forging and machining were likely also done in France, with the heat treating and finishing in Ulm, as with the postwar PP's.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Are they good shooters?

Depends on what your definition of a good shooter is.

Mine wasn't but I may have had one that was used in the siege of Stalingrad and then the battle of Berlin.

 

[bannockburn]

NIGHTLORD40K

Nice P1! Yeah I know the durability of the early post war P1s isn't the greatest but I really thought it was neat that it was made in France by Manurhin (had a Manurhin PP as well), and later found out it was originally part of an order for the West Berlin Police Department. I don't take it out all that often; just occasionally run a box of 124 grain FMJ through it (has never done well with any 115 grain ammo I tried in it), and then put it back in the safe.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

NIGHTLORD40K

Nice P1! Yeah I know the durability of the early post war P1s isn't the greatest but I really thought it was neat that it was made in France by Manurhin (had a Manurhin PP as well), and later found out it was originally part of an order for the West Berlin Police Department. I don't take it out all that often; just occasionally run a box of 124 grain FMJ through it (has never done well with any 115 grain ammo I tried in it), and then put it back in the safe.

Mine cycles adequately with Winchester white box 115gr, but it doesn't lock the slide open on the last shot.
It seems to like the Federal aluminum cased FMJ a lot better. Never tried any JHP in it, though. Mine isn't cosmetically perfect, but the internals looked unfired when I got it!

 

[bannockburn]

NIGHTLORD40K

My P1 definitely doesn't like WWB ammo even though it works okay in my other 9mm.s (except sometimes in my Glock 17). In the P1 it's typically so-so accuracy and like yours the slide will not always lock back after the last round.