P-38 ????
- Thread starter rbernie
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emc
Member
I had one of the Manurhin produced pistols, and here are my experiences.
1. Would feed anything, FMJ or JHP
2. Due to the regulation of the fixed sights, only 124 grain would hit to the point of aim at 25 yards (Yeah, I know they used meters, but that doesn't change anything)
3. Never did like the DA/SA mode of operation
4. Take down is quick and easy
5. These are NOT small guns
6. The narrow barrel makes for a bit of muzzle climb
7. My slide started to crack on either side, so I had to get rid of the gun. Don't remember exactly where, but when examined closely, they were there.
8. Whether wartime or post-war, they're a neat bit of history.
FWIW,
emc
1. Would feed anything, FMJ or JHP
2. Due to the regulation of the fixed sights, only 124 grain would hit to the point of aim at 25 yards (Yeah, I know they used meters, but that doesn't change anything)
3. Never did like the DA/SA mode of operation
4. Take down is quick and easy
5. These are NOT small guns
6. The narrow barrel makes for a bit of muzzle climb
7. My slide started to crack on either side, so I had to get rid of the gun. Don't remember exactly where, but when examined closely, they were there.
8. Whether wartime or post-war, they're a neat bit of history.
FWIW,
emc
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
More Thoughts
Whenever owning and shooting a P-38 is in the offing, keep in mind that,
even though the pistol was adopted by the German military, it wasn't in
the same context and intended role as that of the Colt.
The 1911 was designed first and foremost to be a fighting pistol for the cavalry, and robust enough for hard the duty that the cavalry would require of it.. The German army had a different view of the Pistole' 38. Meant to be issued to officers as more of a symbol of rank than anything else...and a tool that COULD be used in a close-range emergency, but probably wouldn't have to. As such, the pistols were generally fired only enough for familiarization and rarely, if ever, shot for practice or recreation. Even then, a magazine or two would probably be about the limit. Think of it as a swagger stick that would go bang.
During WW2, the role of the pistol changed somewhat in the U.S. Army, and
had we dropped the 1911 in favor of another design, it's not likely that it
would have been as tough...nor as heavy as the 1911...and it probably
wouldn't have stood up to as much hard use, either.
The Walther P-38 is a fine pistol. Well-engineered and well made...but
it won't tolerate the heavy use and abuse that Old Bigmouth takes in stride.
Cheers!
Tuner
Whenever owning and shooting a P-38 is in the offing, keep in mind that,
even though the pistol was adopted by the German military, it wasn't in
the same context and intended role as that of the Colt.
The 1911 was designed first and foremost to be a fighting pistol for the cavalry, and robust enough for hard the duty that the cavalry would require of it.. The German army had a different view of the Pistole' 38. Meant to be issued to officers as more of a symbol of rank than anything else...and a tool that COULD be used in a close-range emergency, but probably wouldn't have to. As such, the pistols were generally fired only enough for familiarization and rarely, if ever, shot for practice or recreation. Even then, a magazine or two would probably be about the limit. Think of it as a swagger stick that would go bang.
During WW2, the role of the pistol changed somewhat in the U.S. Army, and
had we dropped the 1911 in favor of another design, it's not likely that it
would have been as tough...nor as heavy as the 1911...and it probably
wouldn't have stood up to as much hard use, either.
The Walther P-38 is a fine pistol. Well-engineered and well made...but
it won't tolerate the heavy use and abuse that Old Bigmouth takes in stride.
Cheers!
Tuner
modifiedbrowning
Member
P95Carry, No, the P38 is not blowback. I believe the term used to describe the barrel lockup is "falling block". Beretta copied this system, it is used in the Berretta 92's and 96's among others. I have a Walther P5 which is basically an updated P38 and uses the same system. I'm sure someone else could describe the function much better than I can, so I won't confuse you by trying to do so.
Just an observation.
The Germans went to great lengths to conceal the numbers of arms they were producing, and contrary to the swagger stick comment every bit of German combat footage (East or Western Front) the Pistol is commonly used, much more so than you see in Allied films.. particularly in urban fighting.
I think the majority of the idea that any walther is "frail" is a late WW2 production gun, or the aluminum frames without the hex insert.
The Germans went to great lengths to conceal the numbers of arms they were producing, and contrary to the swagger stick comment every bit of German combat footage (East or Western Front) the Pistol is commonly used, much more so than you see in Allied films.. particularly in urban fighting.
I think the majority of the idea that any walther is "frail" is a late WW2 production gun, or the aluminum frames without the hex insert.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Frail P-38?
Dr. Rob said:
I think the majority of the idea that any walther is "frail" is a late WW2 production gun, or the aluminum frames without the hex insert
No no...Not frail, and I never meant to imply that, but the P-38 (and the Luger) was developed for a much different role in a war zone than the 1911. The Colt was intended to be the cavalry's primary weapon and because it would take an active, aggressive role, it had to be rough and tumble.
As I noted, the P-38 is a very good design...Ingenious, in fact and ahead of its time. It's just not as brawny as the big Colt. I've seen some of that
footage, and recognized the pistols taking an active role...but a sidearm shot into unserviceablility by a soldier was replaced at no cost to the
soldier. If you or I shoot one apart, it's out of pocket. I shot a couple to
destruction back before they became hot collectables. A BYF 42 and BYF 43. All matching numbers...Wish I had'em back now.
Just my nickel's worth...
Tuner
Dr. Rob said:
I think the majority of the idea that any walther is "frail" is a late WW2 production gun, or the aluminum frames without the hex insert
No no...Not frail, and I never meant to imply that, but the P-38 (and the Luger) was developed for a much different role in a war zone than the 1911. The Colt was intended to be the cavalry's primary weapon and because it would take an active, aggressive role, it had to be rough and tumble.
As I noted, the P-38 is a very good design...Ingenious, in fact and ahead of its time. It's just not as brawny as the big Colt. I've seen some of that
footage, and recognized the pistols taking an active role...but a sidearm shot into unserviceablility by a soldier was replaced at no cost to the
soldier. If you or I shoot one apart, it's out of pocket. I shot a couple to
destruction back before they became hot collectables. A BYF 42 and BYF 43. All matching numbers...Wish I had'em back now.
Just my nickel's worth...
Tuner
RON in PA
Member
Must disagree about the usage of handguns in the German army. The 9mm pistols (P-08, P-38, Radom and HP) were issued to officers and troops that saw front line action and were expected to use them and especially to those that serviced MGs and artillery. Staff officers and REMFs got 7.62 (32 ACP) pistols.
The P-38 (WW2, all steel version) had a reputation of working better than the P-08 in the mud, ice and snow of the Eastern Front and was also well liked by GIs who liberated them. The US Army was impressed enough to start looking for a 9mm replacement for the 1911 right after the war, this led to the S&W 9mm autos.
The postwar P-38s (P-1) had some problems that were rectified with product improvements, ie, the steel hex frame reinforcemnt and a thicker slide. If you buy a surplus post-war P-38/P-1 get one made in the late 70's or 80's as they will have the improvements as well as better sights. But you are still stuck with Walther's lousey trigger.
As for as the 1911, have to agree with Tuner, it's a big, rugged cavalry gun meant to shoot horses as well as men. Compared to its contemporaries its ergonomics were superior. JMB was and is a genius.
The P-38 (WW2, all steel version) had a reputation of working better than the P-08 in the mud, ice and snow of the Eastern Front and was also well liked by GIs who liberated them. The US Army was impressed enough to start looking for a 9mm replacement for the 1911 right after the war, this led to the S&W 9mm autos.
The postwar P-38s (P-1) had some problems that were rectified with product improvements, ie, the steel hex frame reinforcemnt and a thicker slide. If you buy a surplus post-war P-38/P-1 get one made in the late 70's or 80's as they will have the improvements as well as better sights. But you are still stuck with Walther's lousey trigger.
As for as the 1911, have to agree with Tuner, it's a big, rugged cavalry gun meant to shoot horses as well as men. Compared to its contemporaries its ergonomics were superior. JMB was and is a genius.
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