+p+ 9mm ammo

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I keep all of my 9mms loaded with the Ranger 127 +p+ because it's ballistics are closer to the legendary 125 grain .357 Magnum than most other rounds in that caliber, as well as the fact that it seems quite accurate in my pistols. The recoil doesn't seem excessive, either. It also happens to be made by my favorite ammo manufacturer. If it weren't available, I'd probably carry 115 grain Silvertips or maybe the old Federal Classic 9BP (is it still available?). I guess I was an early follower of Evan Marshall's studies.
 
I'm not talking about downrange. Just because a gun dealer will sell stuff legally allowed to LE/Military only with an official memo, doesn't mean that your command is going to cut you a memo giving you permission to buy anything that anyone else isn't allowed to buy. Ammo, guns, knives, etc.
 
I keep all of my 9mms loaded with the Ranger 127 +p+ because it's ballistics are closer to the legendary 125 grain .357 Magnum than most other rounds in that caliber, as well as the fact that it seems quite accurate in my pistols. The recoil doesn't seem excessive, either. It also happens to be made by my favorite ammo manufacturer. If it weren't available, I'd probably carry 115 grain Silvertips or maybe the old Federal Classic 9BP (is it still available?). I guess I was an early follower of Evan Marshall's studies.
Mr Marshall and his sidekick Ed Sanow, have been thoroughly discredited, nothing that they proposed was accurate...Go to warriortalk, and listen to the pros, listen to ammo lab...
 
I keep all of my 9mms loaded with the Ranger 127 +p+ because it's ballistics are closer to the legendary 125 grain .357 Magnum than most other rounds in that caliber, as well as the fact that it seems quite accurate in my pistols. The recoil doesn't seem excessive, either. It also happens to be made by my favorite ammo manufacturer. If it weren't available, I'd probably carry 115 grain Silvertips or maybe the old Federal Classic 9BP (is it still available?). I guess I was an early follower of Evan Marshall's studies.

A little reading for you if you're so inclined.

Fackler on Marshall/Sanow book

Fackler on Marshall/Sanow 2

Duncan MacPherson on Marshall/Sanow book

Wolberg/Roberts on Marshall/Sanow book


A sampling.....

Throughout the text, Marshall and Sanow offer "street results" which purport to show the "stopping power" and percentage of "one-shot stops" that particular handgun bullets have produced in actual shootings. On page 47 they write: "These street results are the heart and soul of this book on stopping power." Accurate, documented field data of bullet performance in actual shootings is a crucial adjunct to laboratory test results; unfortunately, valid information is very difficult to acquire. Their "field data" appears to be based on anecdotal "war stories" which are incomplete and unverified, as illustrated by the example below.

On page 121, Marshall and Sanow state: "The following five Glaser shootings come from Gene Wolberg, Senior Criminologist, San Diego Police Crime Lab." Mr. Wolberg, an author of this review, testified that only the third and fifth incidents described are fully documented and verifiable cases. Mr. Wolberg states he is only casually aware of the fourth incident and emphasizes that his second-hand information is undocumented. Mr. Wolberg denies all knowledge of the first two shooting reports Marshall and Sanow attribute to him. On pages 43 and 44, Marshall and Sanow discuss their data collection methodology:

"4. In order to be included in this study, I insisted on either having or at least being able to review some of the following: police reports, evidence technician reports, statements by the victim (if he survived), homicide reports, autopsy results, and photos. Whenever possible, I also talked to the emergency room doctors and attending physicians.

5. Recovered bullets were either personally examined or photographed by me, or I was provided with photographs of the bullets."


Mr. Wolberg never provided Marshall or Sanow any of the reports, test results, photos or evidence which they insist they inspect prior to including a shooting in their data base. As a result, the veracity of their entire data base is questionable. The verisimilitude of the author’s "street result" data is also in doubt since they violate basic principles of scientific research by not publishing their original data and by claiming "secrecy" when asked to identify their source documentation so that independent researchers who investigate wound ballistics could inspect their original information and verify their results.
 
Playing the "I've read more books than you" card I see...;)


so why not use the lower recoiling, quieter round that is easier on your gun?

Because I shoot a Glock...no need to be easy on it.
 
One of the few advantages of the 9mm is shootability. The ability to get multiple follow-up shots with accuracy. Most modern bullet designs will expand and still penetrate at standard velocities. If you want XTREME performance out of a 9mm you are losing some of the true benefits of that caliber. Get a 357 sig if you feel you need more, thats what it was designed for.
 
I would take the recoil and follow up shot abilities of a +P+ 9mm all day over a 40CAL round in the same glock platform.

As for the 357SIG, well I admit I only shot it once, long ago, but the cost and availabilty of 9mm practice ammo would keep me away from the 357 Sig in general. I'm know its a good round but at this point the 9mm does what I need it to do.

With the 9mm I get cheap practice ammo and +P+ low range 357 sig range performance or anywhere in between.
 
The 9mm has many followers, the ability to handle a firearm and hit the target with not to much recoil is probably the biggie, for that reason alone many are going to go with it... Many Departments allow the 9mm, 40 cal and 45 to be carried...But you have to qualify with them :D Prove you can shoot them...

The round in discussion is not carried by many and is very hard to get for most who shoot and are not LEO...Sort of puts it all in place for me:D

Good Nato round for starters, practice with them at the range and hit what you aim at and you will be eating the main meal, dessert is later on with the 127 if it is served in your house:p

Regards
 
The Federal 9BPLE +p+ is one of my favorite carry loads. It does have quite a bit of muzzle blast/flash though so I made Federal HST 124gr +p my EDC load.
 
Rather than spend the effort to edit all of the personal attacks and unhelpful rhetoric out of this pissing contest, I'm just going to close it.

I suggest using this closure as a general reminder to attack arguments and not each other...
 
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