+P and +P+

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GunLvrNLearner

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Do you know what brands will not safely take +P's?

Keltecs,Taurus,Hi Points,Rugers are all cheaper guns are they ok for +P?

S&W Sigmas??
 
It kind of depends on the individual model. Broadly speaking, Rugers should be generally safe with +P. Most Tauri are as well. I would tend to think +P would not be a good idea with a Hi-Point, but have no personal experience. I also have no experience with Keltec or the Sigma. Your best bet, in general, is to check with the manufacturer.

As for +P+, I would tend to stay away from it entirely, as there is no industry standard for +P+ so you really don't know what it is.
 
I think I read somewhere that Hi Point has said that those guns will take whatever ammo you can feed it, including the overpressure ammunition. I tend to believe them; Hi Points, at least their pistols are very heavy and chunky.
 
That wouldn't actually surprise me. I know that for a long time the standard advice re. the Charter Arms Bulldog was to stick with standard pressure ammo, but recently it's come out that several examples have stood up to handloading errors that resulted in .44 Magnum pressures.

So cheap and ugly doesn't necessarily mean weak. I'm still not taking any chances, myself!
 
HK usp I think is rated for +p, at least I know the .45acp usp is actually rated for .45 super, so I am guessing the other calibers are overbuilt as well.

As far as what isn't rated for +p, that is something to consult manufacturers and manuals about.
 
Understand that SAAMI doesn't actually publish anything for +P+ so ammo makers sort of just make it up as they go so you're not likely to see a gun maker say their gun will shoot it, since there's no standard for what "it" is.

It's basically a proof round backed down a tiny bit.

It scares the hell out of me for that reason.
 
Understand that SAAMI doesn't actually publish anything for +P+ so ammo makers sort of just make it up as they go so you're not likely to see a gun maker say their gun will shoot it, since there's no standard for what "it" is.

It's basically a proof round backed down a tiny bit.

It scares the hell out of me for that reason.
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Which is why I wouldn't consider using +P+ in my Sig P6, though I would use +P strictly for defense/carry only. Someone sent an email to Sig a short while ago here, I believe, asking what is safe to use in Sigs. They said something to the effect of +P is okay, but they reccomend against +P+ for that very reason.
 
Do you know what brands will not safely take +P's?
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Might not be a bad idea to visit the makers site of the gun you’re in question about and download the owner/user manual-I think just about everybody now has a downloadable manual online? I know some of my manuals make mention of +P ammo and if you should/shouldn’t use.

I'm still trying to think of a reason to use +P and +P+.
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Until recently I’ve never really bothered with it-I feel most SD loads will handle the situation without getting into the punishment that may be dished out on your weapon by the use of +P etc. Maybe in the 9 mm SD rounds?

I have just begun some research into “bear loads” in anticipation of possibly being allowed to CC in national parks. While I may eventually end up with a bigger gun (as all I’ve worried about stopping previously was BGs), I’ll probably toss a few +P (Bonded Federal HST?) into the inventory for use with existing handguns as a stopgap/compromise for bear deterrence.
Conventional wisdom says more penetration for bears, and since bigger is always better?, probably going to load up on some Bonded +P45 etc.
 
My P 95 will shoot +p+
cheaper than dirt sells them in hydra shok and hi shok (very hot ammo)
 
"+P", marketing hype. Most (with respect to a few junk pieces floating around) pistols can take commercial "+P" ammo, unless they are damage in some way.

I would consider any round that is pushed slightly hotter than it's original loading "+P". Think 230 grain .45 ACP traveling 960 FPS instead of 850 FPS.

"+P+" is what I would consider sub-machinegun ammo, which are not usually labeled as "+P+".
 
I've shot both +P and +P+ (both Federal Hydra Shoks) out of my P6's and saw little difference between them shooting wise. They were both hotter than the American Eagle and WWB I usually use.

The +P+ isnt as hot as most of the 9mm SMG ammo I've shot over the years. I dont know what they are loaded to, and they do vary somewhat, but they are steamy. The Federal +P+ doesnt leave as deep a crease in your cheek from a wire stock like the Spanish stuff I have does, nor does the gun run as fast.

There was a similar thread to this a little while back. I believe Hi Point and Ruger are about the only ones who will put it in writing that +p and hotter are OK to use in their guns. as was mentioned, if you have a specific gun in mind, I'd contact the maker.
 
Here's what a few of my manuals say

Just did a quick search through my downloaded manuals and here's what they say 'bout +P & +P+ (note HK is the only one that says yes, with usual caveats). Some are vague (on purpose?).

HK USPC-YES
All USPs are approved for use with +P and +P+ ammunition as it applies to the specific caliber. The use of +P and +P+ ammunition accelerates wear and reduces the service life on the component parts of any pistol, including the USP series pistols.

SIG P229R-YES FOR +P ONLY? (since there is no SAAMI +P+ standard?)
Always use ammunition that complies with the performance standards established by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute, Inc. of the United States (SAAMI).

RUGER LCP-YES FOR +P ONLY? (since there is no SAAMI +P+ standard?)
The RUGER LCP pistols are compatible with standard factory ammunition loaded to U.S. Industry Standards, including hollow-point loads loaded in brass or aluminum cases. No .380 Auto manufactured in accordance with NATO, U.S., SAAMI, or CIP standards is known to be beyond the design limits or known not to function in these pistols.

SPRINGFIELD XD-NO?
Use only fresh factory ammunition such as Winchester or Federal. DO NOT use handloads, reloads, or remanufactured ammunition in your Springfield firearm. Only shoot cartridges of the caliber engraved on the barrel. DO NOT use shot cartridges or any ammunition which is loaded with a frangible projectile or any ultra-light weight projectile at elevated velocities (italics mine), or any wooden or plastic projectile.

TAURUS PT145 MILLENNIUM PRO-GO BY THE CHART
Taurus pistols were designed to use cartridges loaded to the limits shown below. Other cartridges of various types or bullet weights may or may not function acceptably; such ammunition should be thoroughly tested by the user before relying on it. Because of the widely differing specifications of such other ammunition, Taurus cannot be responsible for malfunctions resulting from its use.
BULLET MUZZLE
CALIBER WEIGHT VELOCITY
.32 ACP................ 71 GR FMP 905 FPS
.380 ACP.............. 95 GR FMJ 1000 FPS
9MMPARA. ..........124 GR FMJ 1225 FPS
.357 SIG ............125 GR FMJ 1350 FPS
.40 S&W .............180 GR FMJ 985 FPS
.45 ACP...............225 GR FMJ 900 FPS
GR = grains
FMJ = Full metal jacketed bullet
FPS = Feet per second
“Plus-P’, “PIus-P-Plus” or other ultra or high velocity ammunition generates pressures significantly in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the useful life of the firearm or exceed the margin of safety built into many pistols and could therefore be DANGEROUS.

SMITH & WESSON 4013TSW-YES FOR +P?
“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety built into some revolvers and could therefore be DANGEROUS.
This ammunition should not be used in Smith & Wesson medium (K frame) revolvers manufactured prior to 1958. Such pre-1958 medium (K-frame) revolvers can be identified by the absence of a model number stamped inside the yoke cut of the frame. (i.e., the area of the frame exposed when the cylinder is in the open position.
“Plus-P-Plus (+P+) ammunition must not be used in Smith & Wesson firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates that it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore such ammunition may vary significantly as to the pressures generated.

SMITH & WESSON SIGMA-YES FOR +P?
“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety built into some revolvers and could therefore be DANGEROUS.
This ammunition should not be used in Smith & Wesson medium (K frame) revolvers manufactured prior to 1958. Such pre-1958 medium (K-frame) revolvers can be identified by the absence of a model number stamped inside the yoke cut of the frame. (i.e., the area of the frame exposed when the cylinder is in the open position.
“Plus-P-Plus (+P+) ammunition must not be used in Smith & Wesson firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates that it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore such ammunition may vary significantly as to the pressures generated.

WALTHER PPK-YES FOR +P?
“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety built into some revolvers and could therefore be DANGEROUS.
This ammunition should not be used in Smith & Wesson medium (K frame) revolvers manufactured prior to 1958. Such pre-1958 medium (K-frame) revolvers can be identified by the absence of a model number stamped inside the yoke cut of the frame. (i.e., the area of the frame exposed when the cylinder is in the open position.
“Plus-P-Plus (+P+) ammunition must not be used in Walther firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates that it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore such ammunition may vary significantly as to the pressures generated.
 
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All Hi-Point Firearms are +P+ rated; they will handle all factory ammunition including Law Enforcement Only +P+ loads
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Straight from the Hi-Point site.

I haven't had anything hotter than standard pressure out of mine though.
 
I would consider any round that is pushed slightly hotter than it's original loading "+P". Think 230 grain .45 ACP traveling 960 FPS instead of 850 FPS.

"+P+" is what I would consider sub-machinegun ammo, which are not usually labeled as "+P+".
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+P and +P+ deal with pressure. Higher velocity does not necessarily mean higher pressure. Various factors like powder burn rate, how long or short the powder charge maintains peak pressure, and non-cannister powders with flash suppressant additives will all affect velocity. For a good example of this take a look at Buffalo Bore's standard pressure high velocity 158 grain .38 Special loadings.
 
This is what my manual for my Beretta 900S states: " page 61, We do not recommend extended use of +P, +P+ or sub-machine gun ammunition because the chamber pressure mya reach or exceed proof load pressure decreasing the major components service life expectancy."

The key word is extended, which means limited, I carry my 9000S w/+P+
 
According to my Kel Tec P32 manual, the P32 can handle higher pressure ammunition, but it should not be used on a regular basis.
 
I shot a few rounds of the Buffalo Bore 380 auto +P ammo out of my keltec yesterday. Without having someone coming at me, I wasn't enjoying it at all.
 
+P+ can be anything from a near-squib load to something that's just packed with C4.

That said, most +P+ ammo I've run across has been about as hot as +P stuff, which is still slower (and thus lower pressure) then 9mm NATO loading specifications. IIRC 9mm NATO to specification is a 124gr slug at 1300 FPS. The only guys who seem to match that is Double-Tap who put out a 124gr slug at about 1295fps.

Thus, my view is that +P or +P+ is not some weird exotic "don't shoot often" ammo. My view is that +P or +P+ is a mark that this is a cartridge that is loaded to its factory specifications, rather then underloaded like practice and target ammo.
 
Kel-TEC says my P-11 and P-3AT will handle +P ammo. They don't say anything about +P+.
Like someone else mentioned though, shooting very hot ammo through those little guns is not pleasant at all.
I've run 230gr loads through my 1911 that were pushing 1,000fps with no issues, so I imagine it is OK for +P or +P+ as well.
 
Kel-Tecs are okay with +P, but not with extensive use. Basically run enough through it to get a feel for it, than practice with the standard stuff. Personally I wouldn't want to touch off +P anything in something so small, but to each there own.
 
M&P manual for 9mm says +P is fine, but they don't warranty against +P+ since it is not standardized yet. (From reputable manufacturers should be fine)


I'm still trying to think of a reason to use +P and +P+.
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...you and me both.
 
I have put about 100 rounds of +P Winchester Ranger T through my Kel Tec PF-9 and it shot fine and shows no extra wear. I was told by Kel Tec it's ok, just not on a everyday basis. I put a couple of mags of +P through it everytime I take it to the range, and this is what is in it now.
 
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