Uncle Alvah
Member
I have a Colt Cobra Lightweight .38, 1960 manufacture.
Is this gun suitable for +P loads or should I stick with standard .38 factory rounds?
Is this gun suitable for +P loads or should I stick with standard .38 factory rounds?
+P in a Cobra?
- Thread starter Uncle Alvah
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Peter M. Eick
Member
Agreed. I like the D framed guns and my little diamondbacks are great. Just ask yourself how easy it is to replace and how torn up you will be if you destroy it with +p ammo.
I dug out my original 1976 Diamondback manual. Pg 3 it says and I quote "The use of +p high velocity ammunition in 38 caliber revolvers is not recommended".
In the 1991 colt manual for my Detective special it says and again, I quote "agent 38 special limited use * (Aluminum frame). The * says "extensive use of +P 38 special ammunition will accelerate wear in your revolver.......Should be checked every 1000 rounds in aluminum frames and 2000 to 3000 in steel frames."
Now the flip side of this argument is that 38 +p today is about equal in terms of velocity at 38 special was in the 60's.
So again, I go back to how easy will it be to replace the gun when you destroy it and how attached are you to it? If easy to replace then chose accordingly.
I dug out my original 1976 Diamondback manual. Pg 3 it says and I quote "The use of +p high velocity ammunition in 38 caliber revolvers is not recommended".
In the 1991 colt manual for my Detective special it says and again, I quote "agent 38 special limited use * (Aluminum frame). The * says "extensive use of +P 38 special ammunition will accelerate wear in your revolver.......Should be checked every 1000 rounds in aluminum frames and 2000 to 3000 in steel frames."
Now the flip side of this argument is that 38 +p today is about equal in terms of velocity at 38 special was in the 60's.
So again, I go back to how easy will it be to replace the gun when you destroy it and how attached are you to it? If easy to replace then chose accordingly.
351 WINCHESTER
Member
Some gun writer did a test between a colt airweight snubby and a s & w j frame back in the 70's with +P ammo. The smith did just fine, but the colt went out of time around round 500. Don't ask me for the link or article as I'm just going by memory.
Uncle Alvah
Member
Well folks, I'm not one to disregard a consensus opinion, so I will pass on the +P loads. I just recently came to own this little gun and it came with some cartridges, but I'm not sure what they are beyond the manufacturer. A local gun shop owner has recommended Federal Classic 138gr lead round nose, so I guess I'll see about picking some of those up.....
Thanks!
Thanks!
Jim Watson
Member
If I were going to carry it for self defense, it would just have to take its chances with enough +P for familiarization and the occasional shootout. Or maybe the Buffalo Bore lead HP that they claim +P velocity at standard pressure.
For plinking and practice, wadcutters or soft SWCs.
For plinking and practice, wadcutters or soft SWCs.
When Colt was working with prototypes that would become the Cobra they made one with a special alloy cylinder and chambered it in .357 Magnum (This in the 1950's when the Magnum still had hair on its chest). The revolver stood up O.K., but the shooters didn't and they stopped (I believe) after some 1000 rounds.
On the other hand I once examined a Colt Detective Special that the owner had someone rechamber into .357 Magnum.
This is something that never should be done because true Magnum cylinders are made from different steel, and heat treated through an another process.
Anyway, the poor little snubby was beat to death so badly Colt couldn't repair it, and instead generously offered to replace it with a new one at a discounted price.
I personally carry 148-grain .38 Special Mid-Range wadcutters in my Detective Special, and switch to a Taurus .44 Special when I think something more is needed - which isn't often.
I have no doubt that D-frame Colt's in .38 Special will hold up to a very limited use of Plus-P ammunition; but given the problems getting new repair parts I see no reason to push them.
On the other hand I once examined a Colt Detective Special that the owner had someone rechamber into .357 Magnum.
This is something that never should be done because true Magnum cylinders are made from different steel, and heat treated through an another process.
Anyway, the poor little snubby was beat to death so badly Colt couldn't repair it, and instead generously offered to replace it with a new one at a discounted price.
I personally carry 148-grain .38 Special Mid-Range wadcutters in my Detective Special, and switch to a Taurus .44 Special when I think something more is needed - which isn't often.
I have no doubt that D-frame Colt's in .38 Special will hold up to a very limited use of Plus-P ammunition; but given the problems getting new repair parts I see no reason to push them.
788Ham
Member
I bought a Colt Cobra about a year and 1/2 ago, 4" model, 95%. This is a special little revolver, I've shot it, yes, but .38 SWC loaded to about 790 fps. , thats all. They are such light weight, why hammer your hand shooting something stronger? I gave a little more than I should have possibly, but these aren't made anymore, I've got a Colt Trooper 4" .38 Spl. that will handle anything that little one won't, plus I've got a .357 if I want to test my gripping abilities. Your revolver... your time and monies !
ssyoumans
Member
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I don't in mine. I have fired a few cylinders through my 1968 Cobra since I purchased the police trade in in 1995, but not anymore.
Reference: http://www.grantcunningham.com/coltammo.html
Reference: http://www.grantcunningham.com/coltammo.html
I carry factory Plus P in mine
But shoot standard in my alloy Colts. I have fired some Plus P in my agents and cobras. Maybe less than 100 since I had the guns and who knows if they were fired with plus P in the past.
If I ever have to use them in a conflict, I really won't care about some added minor wear. Plus P 158 SWC ammo does kick a little more than standard in these small guns but at 10 yards or less it prints very close to even the 125 or 135 grain bullets.
But shoot standard in my alloy Colts. I have fired some Plus P in my agents and cobras. Maybe less than 100 since I had the guns and who knows if they were fired with plus P in the past.
If I ever have to use them in a conflict, I really won't care about some added minor wear. Plus P 158 SWC ammo does kick a little more than standard in these small guns but at 10 yards or less it prints very close to even the 125 or 135 grain bullets.
Limited use isn't going to hurt anything, even if it's use is with the high end performance Plus-P ammunition. In D-frame Colt's more extensive use may cause ratchet teeth to batter the hand, and loosen the fit between the frame and crane.
In days long past, the factory recommended that a revolver be retured occasionally for a free tune-up. Parts replacement was seldom necessary. The trouble now is that this kind of service is no longer available.
I have put badly out-of-time Colt's back into perfect shape with nothing but a hammer.
O.K., so it had a plastic head...
In days long past, the factory recommended that a revolver be retured occasionally for a free tune-up. Parts replacement was seldom necessary. The trouble now is that this kind of service is no longer available.
I have put badly out-of-time Colt's back into perfect shape with nothing but a hammer.
O.K., so it had a plastic head...
Dframe
Member
The Cobras will withstand a limited number of +P. The question is whether it's a good idea. The balance goes like this. Marginally better ballistics? vs potential damage to a gun that isn't being made anymore and never will. Personally, I will only use the best performing "Standard pressure" ammunition in my Cobras. If I feel I need more power I'll use a more expendable gun.
royal barnes
Member
There are enough non +p rounds available that there is no reason to batter a 1960 Colt's Cobra by shooting +p ammo. I have a '65 Cobra and a '69 Agent. I carry both and don't shoot +p's in them.
The Cobra was not designed for any heavy loading. Even the owners manual said to have it inspected after 1500 rounds. The manual also said to shoot midrange loads.
They were nice guns, I had one that was unfired. It was a dream to carry but I eventually sold it after the resale price went sky high.
They were nice guns, I had one that was unfired. It was a dream to carry but I eventually sold it after the resale price went sky high.
rswartsell
Member
I use mainly the Old Fuff's 148 gr wadcutters in a steel frame DS, but load Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 gr +P for carry. I will do a cylinder of the +P every blue moon for familiarization. If this was an Agent or Cobra? I believe I would skip the Speers in favor of a standard pressure FBI load. Never tried the Buffalo Bore, but everything I have used from them has been top notch and as advertised.
I picked the light/full-wadcutter load for several reasons. The most important ones are the kind of hole it (literally) cuts, and it shoots to point-of-aim, which in my revolver lighter weight bullets don't. Also in my neighborhod over-penetration could be an issue, with houses across a narrow street.
I am not a beliver in expanding(?) bullets when they are fired from a snubby. Bad guys are not made of jello.
On the few occasions when I think something bigger might be called for I change to a .44 Special (Taurus model 445, blued steel/5 shot/2" barrel.)
That said, what ammunition one uses is up to the individual.
I am not a beliver in expanding(?) bullets when they are fired from a snubby. Bad guys are not made of jello.
On the few occasions when I think something bigger might be called for I change to a .44 Special (Taurus model 445, blued steel/5 shot/2" barrel.)That said, what ammunition one uses is up to the individual.
rswartsell
Member
When pressed I bow to the experienced.
You gotta admit Fuff, that when you were forming these habits the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrels (or their like) did not exist.
I am unfortunately sans a short barrel .44 spl.
You gotta admit Fuff, that when you were forming these habits the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrels (or their like) did not exist.
I am unfortunately sans a short barrel .44 spl.
When I formed my opinions they were still using percussion caps... 
A medium-frame/5 shot/.44 Special snubby isn't easy to find, although they were made by both Taurus and Charter Arms. Keep an eye peeled.
I try to keep the choice of platform and ammunition to match the environment and threat level. In some potential situations the best answer is to carry more of both. When practical, bigger holes are better, and you are more likely to hit where you want to with a 4" rather then 2" barrel. But that isn't the subject of this thread.
A medium-frame/5 shot/.44 Special snubby isn't easy to find, although they were made by both Taurus and Charter Arms. Keep an eye peeled.
I try to keep the choice of platform and ammunition to match the environment and threat level. In some potential situations the best answer is to carry more of both. When practical, bigger holes are better, and you are more likely to hit where you want to with a 4" rather then 2" barrel. But that isn't the subject of this thread.
rswartsell
Member
In the mid to late '70s I owned a Charter "Son of Sam" Bulldog .44 spl.
Being at the time a "range rat" I can still feel the 20-50 (I actually do not think I ever made it to 50 rounds, try it and see what you think) round ache in my right thumb. Felt like it was coming off. I regret the hell out of letting it go though, so Fuff is right. With a steel frame though and very limited rounds I can be right also in the Speers.
Being at the time a "range rat" I can still feel the 20-50 (I actually do not think I ever made it to 50 rounds, try it and see what you think) round ache in my right thumb. Felt like it was coming off. I regret the hell out of letting it go though, so Fuff is right. With a steel frame though and very limited rounds I can be right also in the Speers.
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Hatchett
Member
I own a '68 Colt Cobra in practically mint condition that looks like it has barely been fired. It has a hairline fracture under the barrel that was there when I bought it (I like it enough just for its looks, and it got me a 90% discount). Either someone managed to fire it many thousands of times without putting any other kind of wear on the gun until it finally gave way, or it only took a few rounds to crack it. My guess is the latter.
Maybe a double-loaded handload or something caused it, but I think it's probably safer to assume it was a +P and stay away from them with my other early aluminum guns in the future.
Maybe a double-loaded handload or something caused it, but I think it's probably safer to assume it was a +P and stay away from them with my other early aluminum guns in the future.
Somewhere I have an early Charter Arms .44 Special with a 4" barrel and an aluminum shroud that covers the ejector rod, plus adjustable sights.
Anyway it does not have the original stocks, but rather much larger rubber Pachmayer's. You may be able to understand why.
Also this may come as a shock to some, but the .44 Special can be downloaded for use in lighter/smaller guns, and still be effective.
During the latter 19th century (ah, I remember it well) so-called "British Bulldog" .44 snubbies were very popular, but are now largely forgotten. However the concept still works.
Deltaboy1984
Member
Baby those Agents and Cobra' s cause they are Not making anymore.
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