P210-6 Range report (long)

[doctorhumbert]

Well, Today I made first ever trip to local indoor range with this brand new Sig P210-6. I've gotta say, this gun makes me look 'good'.

I didn't have enough time to buy good ammo, so I shot whatever they had (preferably cheap) at the gun range at a twice the cost of Wally world 9mm luger.

25 yards bench rested slow fire with Winchester FMJ 115gr 9mm (the cheap white box stuff).

The Best group

I was aiming at the bottom of the black dot, so gun (and the ammo) shoots about 3" high and 1 1/2" to the left at 25 yards. Pretty impressive accuracy for a $5.99 a box ammo.

Here are groups by Remington UMC 115gr FMJ 9mm (the cheap yelow box stuff)

It's nowhere as accurate as Winchester, so it's hard to tell where the exact center of POI is on the target with this ammo.

I was very impressed with P210, particulary with Winchester ammo, with most of the groups near 1" in single jagged holes. Imagine what it could do with match quality ammos.

Now, I am wondering if the sights are off. As for the shooting high, the different ammo (especialy heavier 124gr) might bring down inch or too at 25 yards. Also it's probably zeroed to shoot X at 50 yards, thus it probably is shooting high at 'shorter' 25yards distance.
The real concern is wether gun is SHOOTING an inch to LEFT. Since I have such a repeating patterns as shown above, virtually copies of one another, it is unlikely that bad shooting stance is so consistant. But then again factory target shows group pretty much centered on the target.

Could it be the ammo then?
The front sight looks little off, could THIS be a problem?

Though hard to belive from above shot groups, could it be me and my bad improper grip?

It would be helpful to do more shooting with 124gr +P nato spec ammo on this gun to find out its true accuracy, but until then your opinions would be appreciated.

 

[mete]

Remember that POI of a handgun is very sensitive as to grip so I assume that that's the problem. It's been many years since I fired a 210, the three stage trigger takes time to get used to. The accuracy is there like my P7 but I'll have to remember to mention the 210 when people say the P7 is expensive !

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Re: three stage trigger?

What are you talking about?

Mine was a nice, crisp-as-the-best-custom-1911 trigger... Nothing to get used to. Finest SA trigger I've ever felt. (The P-210-"6" means "match grade trigger.")

Re: The front sight.

Yes, front sight being a bit off center to the right, like shown, could be causing the gun to shoot left. (When the gun is pointed straight at the target, with front and rear sight aligned, the end of the barrel is to the left because of its right-ward list.)

Try centering it on the barrel and bench rest it again...

If you're sure the shooting low is the gun and its not you, you can always take a little metal off the front sight. (A heavier bullet -- ala the 124 gr you mentioned -- might also help raise the point of impact a bit.)

I really doubt the problem is grip -- not with the consistency you're getting.

-------------------------
I had a P-210-6, which I sold to a list member a year or two ago. Mine shot to point of aim with 115 gr rounds -- and came with a proof target showing a 1 3/4" group at 50 meters (roughly 55 yards.) I could never shoot that, but believe the gun could!

It was a wonderful gun, but I needed a good used pickup .... and selling it helped with a LOT of the purchase price of the truck.

I shoot IDPA and didn't like being limited to 8+1 rounds. Further, trying to do a quick mag exchange with the european mag release was difficult... forget drop free. The gun was just setting in the gun safe, not getting shot. I drive the truck every day.

 

[Sean Smith]

It's been many years since I fired a 210, the three stage trigger takes time to get used to.

You are confused. No such animal on a factory P210. Just crisp SA triggers at around 3.5 pounds.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I would guess your 3 stage trigger is due to the screw being loose in the tang. Mine -6 does that once in a while, but the -5 never does.

Nice shooting though.

 

[mete]

I shot the 210 some 30 years ago. And yes in those days they all had three stage triggers. Obviously they have changed. You make me feel old though the seventies are not the dark ages, are you all under 30 ?

 

[doctorhumbert]

No respect to 'elderly' but:

in those days they all had three stage triggers

I have 1954 P210/M49 DK which has single stage SA trigger. I've NEVER heard of three stage trigger, nor think there is any.

 

[Erich]

Man, you're making me very jealous. What a great report! Thanks!

 

[mete]

Old I may be but alzheimers hasn't set in yet. From "Cooper on Handguns" ,Jeff Cooper, 1974. "it has a three stage trigger the only one of its kind.First there is slack, then take-up,and only then a crisp release. This is disconcerting, and while no hinderance to deliberate shooting , it takes a bit of learning in rapid fire. "

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Old I may be but alzheimers hasn't set in yet

Ah... there is nothing that youth and energy can do that age and experience cannot undo.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Old I may be but alzheimers hasn't set in yet. From "Cooper on Handguns" ,Jeff Cooper, 1974. "it has a three stage trigger the only one of its kind.First there is slack, then take-up,and only then a crisp release. This is disconcerting, and while no hinderance to deliberate shooting , it takes a bit of learning in rapid fire. "

I'm beginning to think Jeff Cooper had a "one of a kind" gun, and that your memory has been clouded by that article.

I've shot six different P-210s, and NONE OF THEM had a three-stage trigger. (Two of them were the [210-5?] model set up for serious international competition. )

The one I had, a P-210-6, bought new in '97 [but made in '78] was certainly NOT a three-stage trigger. It just broke after minimal takeup.

To make matters even more confusing, I've never heard "take up" described as a "stage."

I wonder if the one Cooper shot had the loose sear assembly that Peter mentioned earlier? One screw (on the tang) holds it in place. Take the screw out and the whole unit can be lifted out for cleaning or maintenance. If its loose, I suppose there can be slack and "play."

 

[zeke]

Have a Danish m/49 model, there are different stages to the trigger pull. The first stage takes up some slack (very short and light), the second takes back the hammer, and the third is extremely light and crisp releasing the sear.

This is slightly different from many European triggers, where final stage moves the hammer back fractionally before release (typical CZ). The second stage of the Sig trigger moves the hammer back noticably, but ya can hold it there for final very light stage.

This ain't a figment of imagination, but actual observation.

Have no idea what modern 210 triggers are like, as never have seen one.

 

[doctorhumbert]

Ok.Ok. So it 'does' have three stage trigger.....

Single stage, quadrouple stage, who cares? As long as it works.

I don't think I am pushing groups to left on my own. The grip pushing grip exactly 1" to the left every time? The groups are too tight and consistant for display of such human error.

I think the front sight needs to be recentered. I will see if they budge by tapping it with hard white nylon sight punch. If not I will have to either buy or borrow that $150 sight tool.

I also ordered some 124gr Geco (German) 9mm ammo. It should be able to shoot inch or so lower at 25 yards.

 

[BigG]

Nice pistol (and shooting) Dr.! You may be having a problem with your grip or trigger control to make the group off center. That Colt Browning type grip is not the easiest thing to master. (I know the pistol has Petter elements but it's a modification of the basic C/B design).

Did the P210 give you hammer bite? That's the worst thing I can say about my Colts and I believe the SIG will also bite.

 

[BigG]

...problem with grip or trigger control...

What I mean by this is not a GROSS problem, but a MINOR one of shifting grip between shots or shot strings. If you notice some of your groups are nicely centered in the black, some are left, some are left and high. This is more shooter induced than hardware, methinks... YMMV

 

[doctorhumbert]

If you notice some of your groups are nicely centered in the black, some are left, some are left and high

If it were, I too think it's the grip, but here are the pic of my groups at 25 yards again. Way too tight and consistant. All those targets will overlap on one another while still showing the same single hole. I have about 5 more targets with similar left shooting groups, but with flier or two.

I've never had problem with shooting grip on similar 1911.

Thank you big G. The gun does gives me hammer bite. But it only draws little blood. P210 is such fun gun to shoot, you don't really notice it. I may try to put on a glove, but that may have effect on proper grip.

 

[BigG]

You go, Doc!

 

[mete]

Doc, you've been injured by your gun ? You better send it to me, besides I have to try a single stage 210. You youngsters should understand that first you have to learn stuff, only then will you have something to forget when you get old.

 

[BigG]

Doc, I just noticed your pic of the front sight. It's off to the right, as you noted. That would make the impact point be left. Looks like ya got a keeper.

 

[Sean Smith]

What Cooper described doesn't constitute a 3-stage trigger. Score another goof-up for the Soul Chicken.

By his description of the SIG P210 trigger, 1911s have 2-stage triggers, which they don't. Cooper is just misusing terminology here... how ironic for such a linguistic masturbator.

 

[zeke]

doctor humbert-looks like your sites need adjusting for that load. My POI varies slightly for different loads, but some shoot slightly left (consistently).

Mighty nice pistol and shooting, might want to try the regular Win Q4172, which may shhot even better than the bulk packs. Most accurate factory load tried so far has been Fed 124 gn hydra-shock (standard velocity).

Awile ago bought some of the surplus wood grips and flattened the back strap, which alleviated most of the hammer bite. Was ready to dry small dab of silicone fill in the rear hollow of the hammer. The rear of hammer looks like it was designed to chisel.

Is that one of the newer heavier frame models? Two years ago found a heavy recoil spring assembly on internet, was worth it.

The p-210 is one pistol will never consider getting rid of, mighty nice trigger.

 

[doctorhumbert]

I have box of federal hydrashock 124gr in my cabinet. I will try them this weekend, and post pic of new groups.

I can't spare $150-200 on sight pusher right now . Does anyone have one I can borrow?

 

[DBR]

I bought my 210-6 as a shooter and not a collectable. I still wear the scar from the hammer. Probably the result of lots of high grip practice with Glocks and 1911s. So, I ground off about 1/8 inch of the hammer spur and no more bite. Still looks stock - I did a good job of it. Great gun!

doctorhumbert:
On my gun, the sights were easy to adjust with a brass drift punch.

 

[doctorhumbert]

Hmm. I don't wanna ding my sight with a brass punch. I have white nylon sight punch. I might try that.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello, sir, and kudos on your P210. They are very well made. Unfortunately, mine bites me, too. I'm not sure if the hammer is stainless or just finished in a matte hard chrome so I've not bobbed the hammer spur. I've found that a few layers of duct tape between the thumb and trigger finger help...for a while.

If interested, here's some observations on my P210:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Sig9mm.htm

Best and good shooting.