Para-Ordnance Warthawg - Range Report & Warning

[jwxspoon]

Go with the RAMI. Mine is in .40 and it is one sweet gem of a pistol.

jw

 

[MICHAEL T]

Go get a Colt Defender (I did) or a New Agent (did that to) Either a lot more pistol for the money Relieable and made of quality parts. Next up a Kimber (not a fan but their compact seem to work fine) then a Springfield

I just bought a new Dan Wesson Bobtail for less than that para and is a lot more pistol.For the money.
Take the lost and get rid of it.

 

[aikidoka-mks]

This thread is eye opening. I've been thinking of purchasing a warthog and bud's gun shop had a good price. I may have to rethink unless I'm comfortable the retailer or para will stand behind the purchase/product.

 

[Glockorama]

I've never been a big fan of the Para's, but that is some truly awful "workmanship". That's shameful.

And no, Ruger does not have a written warranty, but if something breaks they will fix it for free. Ruger has good customer service and doesn't really "need" a warranty. They just fix it for you.

 

[stevemis]

Sorry for the lack of updates... I took the pistol to the range last week and it's now a "single shot". I've never encountered stoppages like this.. the rear cartridge case is hanging up between the slide and frame, and the noses are way up.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4527897

I'm wondering if Para took too much material off the top of the frame around the disconnector.

Repeated calls and emails to George Wedge have gone unanswered.

Classy operation, huh?

 

[joe4702]

Lordy. Hope you get this straightened out. What a disappointment for a $1K pistol.

 

[RonE]

I know that there are good 1911 style pistols out there and compact versions too but someone once said that "if it ain't a Colt, it is only a copy" and while the statement is true it doesn't mean that there aren't some very fine looking and functioning copies. Looks like PO isn't one of them though. I guess gun magazine writers don't get paid to write bad news.

 

[TG13]

my Brother In Law bought a Para LTC Steel.. when he got it home, the mag release did not work 3/4 of the time.. the release would stick if depressed.. he pulled the release, cleaned it with a rag and put some rem-oil on it, and it would work half the time after that.. then it just stuck and he had a very hard time getting it out of the frame.. he called Para and they sent one out to him for free.. 2 weeks later, and 200 rounds into it, for some reason the thumb safety tab busted off.. it cracked along the bottom of the tab and took a good portion off the rear of the thumb safety.. this was the left side thumb safety.. he called Para, and Para did not warranty it and referred him to Brownell's for a replacement.. his thumb safety was duracoated in the same color as the pistol, Regal Blue.. the only Para-brand thumb safety they had at Brownell's was in bright steel.. this upset him, but he bought it anyway..

i'm amazed that they even sent out a mag release for free.. well, after this info on this thread, i'm amazed that he got someone on the phone at Para..

oh.. and the mag release is an odd size, you can't just get any mag release for it and install it.. and after watching him attempt to install other thumb safeties, the shaft of the Para is a different size, it's smaller..

and on this note, he was thinking of getting a Para HiCap 1911 a couple of days ago.. i think i'll show him the "no warranty" on Para's site.. i think it will be what he needs to finally get the Kimber that he's been talking about for the last year..

and this really makes me happy that i bought an SA-XD 45ACP..

 

[SoCalShooter]

I had considered PARA to replace my kimber TLE/RLII when my friend buys it back from me, but honestly this is not the first posting where I have heard of these types of problems. Thanks for the warning and the info.

 

[stealthcarry]

Guess I'll be the contrarian on this one. I have three P12s and have carried all. The ONLY time the first one had a hiccup, was a weak mag spring. Replaced them with Wolffs and since then, nary a prob of any kind.

This model fits my hand, which for me, is paramount. And since I NEVER leave home without it, I guess you can say I'm betting my ass on it.

 

[jocko]

tried to love um

I had a Para carry 9 (new) and it went back 3 times to Para service , twice on my dollars to. After the 3rd time, I peddled it. To much money into such an unreliable gun. Finish was absolutely terrible, the frame started to peel/chip/crack in finish within 100 rounds. Looked like a 100 year old gun. No doubt Para makes more models in the 1911 style than anyone and I loved the LDA of the carry 9, but issues just lead me to give it up.

After watching the video of todd Jarrett shooting a Para 1000 flawless rounds in less than 10 minutes out of a standard 1911 out of the box, I am amazed at the gun, but I will never own another Para..sorry to have to say that to.

 

[stevemis]

The Warthawg is back at the Para repair center again. Time will tell what, if anything, they fix (or break).

 

[SuperNaut]

stevemis were you ever able to get a hold of George?

TBH I'm surprised he hasn't shown up ITT, I thought he was a member of THR.

 

[ocharry]

boy i am glad i read this,,,,i thought they made a quality pistol,,,,good luck with your mess

i would be gettin rid of that thing

ocharry

 

[berettashotgun]

As an owner of P14's and a P12, I have never had any problem - except the weak mag spring after storing a full mag (14 rounds) for over a year. Had new springs, just was trying to show the wife a little something about her duty pistol. She didn't give a crap....but carries the P12 off duty - the Glock on duty.Has never fired a round @ work.
Anyways, I replaced the plastic mag release on my pistols with a metal release from CDNN - cheap enough.
Mine are about 8-10 years old and I have never had a problem...unlike the Kimbers I USED to own.
Then again, I personally have never had any "issues" with any single firearm I have ever owned, well.... an Franchi AL48 did sometimes hit me on the bridge of the nose.
The Kimbers just didn't live up to my expectations, feeding reliability was my only concern after a 75% success rate on being a "semi-auto".

 

[stevemis]

I got the pistol back again today. This was it's second trip back to the factory. According to the paperwork, they didn't "do" anything. I see all of the damage caused by their manufacturing and quality control snafus (see post #1) is still there. The thumb safety is still cracked (see below). The grip safety still hangs and eventually snaps when engaged. I haven't fired it yet to see if it's capable of feeding more than a few rounds. To be honest, I was so disgusted after looking the pistol over and reading their notes that I packed it back up in the box and stuck it on a shelf.

Here's the paperwork:

Received: 28-May-08 Shipped: 11-Jun-08

Received Condition

2 mags (1 w/PGE) L/S cocking serrations are beginning to rust / Thumb safety & grip safety are beginning to stain again / thumb safety is NOT cracked - it's a casting line

Work Accomplished

Removed rust from L/S cocking serrations / inspected ejector - within spec - Inspected thumb safety - within spec / Inspected grip safety - within spec / Bench checked for function / Test fired with ball & hp ammo (40 rds) / All functions ok

I never noticed any rust on the cocking serrations prior to shipping it in. They didn't seem to find the cause of the feeding issue, so it probably still jams like crazy. They didn't address the thumb & grip safety stains (allege they are stained AGAIN - they were stained out of the box when new). They allege the crack in the thumb safety is a casting line but didn't bother to take 30 seconds to FIX it. Also not listed in the complaint section (and completely unaddressed AGAIN) was the ejector and frame rail damage which wasn't repaired on trip #1.

This is completely unacceptable. Every issue I've had with this pistol was a result of sloppy work on Para's part - both from manufacturing and their so called "support". I can't believe police departments issue this junk to officers.

Anyone interested in a gently used, factory abused quasi-semi-auto WartHawg? Send me a PM. At least you'll know what you're getting. I'm going to go find a RAMI.

 

[SRT1]

Sorry you're having such a rough time with the warthawg.
My local gun shop had one in the case that I was heavily lusting after. I made up my mind to go pick it up and when I got there, it wasn't in the case anymore. I inquired and found out that it wasn't sold, there had been a "problem" with it. Through more digging and talking to the guys I know, I found out it had fired a round in the range when the slide was released on a fresh mag. I see it is now back on the shelf, but with that story, and this one, I'm no longer lusting. More like I feel lucky I got away.
Thanks for posting the story.
SRT

 

[BigGunsMoreFun]

Use it to hold your bait bucket still

I'm really sorry you got screwed so bad by Para Ordnance. I guess about all you can do now is us the piece of crap to hold your bait bucket down when your fishing on the river bank.

You can use it like a hammer to bash snakes in the head when they bug you while fishing.

Thank you very much for saving me the $800+ I was about to waste on one of these. I hope you have better luck in the future. It might be a good idea to write a letter to the editor of some of the gun rags you read and tell them of your experience. Shoot an email to GunTests while you're at it. Who knows? Maybe if you make enough fuss, Para will replace the gun or reimburse you. I think some bad publicity from one of the gun rags might do the trick for you if you can get one to speak up. It's worth a try right?

Molon Labe,
Joe

 

[DistantHorizon]

Yet another thank you for the warning. I have been eyeing the Para Carry 12, as the double-stack 1911 fits my hand perfectly. Just got back from the gun store where I had convinced myself to buy. Grateful I did some research and found your first-hand experience.

Too bad Para is basically the only 1911 double stack game in town.

I second the bad publicity efforts. I'd make it a mission to call, write & e-mail everyone you can think of.

EDIT:
After looking around m1911.org for an hour, it seems that there's hope for you, if you get in touch with the Para rep. that frequents the Para subforum (George Wedge). Though it's far from an optimal solution, I think that would be a better way to go than griping to everyone who'll listen. I'd thoroughly document your issue and report it to him.

 

[mhinagoya]

Rock Island has started selling a double stack 45. I have heard that it will take Para mags (don't know this for certain).

The Wilson KZ-45 is a staggered magazine (not true double stack), which holds 10 rounds in a standard length grip (single stack circumference).

I don't understand what has happened to Para. I have friends who shoot competition and will use nothing else. Some of their guns have tens of thousands of rounds through them.

 

[jacho]

I bought a Para SSP as my first Para. I will not purchase another Para product. They look good and perform reasonably well but I question their durability and customer service. Mine shot low out of the box. GW told me that I didn't know how to sight the pistol. Fixed it with a set of Novaks. The slide started peening at the slide stop almost immediately and I was told that it is considered 'normal' by Para--strange why my 20 year old Colt doesn't exhibit this 'normal' peen after thousands of rounds. Every time I called Para 'customer service' all I ever got was a Wedgie. I'm Canadian and wanted to support a Canadian firearms company...never again.

 

[CountGlockula]

Thanks for the report stevemis.

 

[atblis]

Hmm

I can't figure out how people buy Paras, and then are surprised to find out they're a POS. I thought it was pretty well known.

 

[Don Lu]

I was really wanting one of these..I have heard of the horror stories before, but though it was just people "bashing". I appreciate your account of what happened b/c You have walked us through you ordeal step by step. Im not one to avoid buying from a company just b/c of someones negative stories or opinions (I own 2 Tauruses..), But I will think twice..actually 3 or 4 times before considering any thing from PO..thanks again for the account. Good luck and good shooting.

 

[pctech]

Thanks for posting your experience.

I've wanted a Para Warthawg for years now but have always been concerned about the quality control issues, as well as the (apparently lacking) customer support.

Para-Ordnance is one manufacture that I have taken off of my list.