Pasadena, TX Shooting... You may recall
- Thread starter ldyates
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June 30, 2008, 2:49PM
Joe Horn cleared by grand jury in Pasadena shootings
Panel issues no-bill after two weeks of testimony
By BRIAN ROGERS and RUTH RENDON
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle
The shooting of two burglary suspects has sparked heated debate about property rights, gun control and other issues.
A Harris County grand jury decided today that Joe Horn should not be charged with a crime for shooting two suspected burglars he confronted outside his neighbor's home in Pasadena last fall.
The decision to clear Horn of wrongdoing came two weeks after the grand jury began considering evidence in the case, including Horn's testimony last week.
Horn, a 62-year-old retiree, became the focus of an intense public debate after the Nov. 14 shootings. Many supporters praised him as a hero for using deadly force to protect property, while others dismissed him as a killer who should have heeded a 911 operator's instructions to stay in his house and wait for police.
Horn called authorities after hearing breaking glass and seeing two men climb through a window into his next-door neighbor's home in the 7400 block of Timberline.
The 911 operator urged Horn to remain inside, but he went outside with his 12-gauge shotgun and came face-to-face with Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 38.
According to a transcript of Horn's 911 call, which he made about 2 p.m., the operator repeatedly urged Horn to stay in his house, but Horn said he did not believe it would be right to let the burglars get away.
"Well, here it goes, buddy," Horn can be heard telling the operator. "You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."
The operator replies: "Don't go outside."
Then the tape records Horn warning someone: "Move and you're dead!" Two quick shots can be heard, followed by a pause and then a third shot.
Pasadena police Capt. A.H. "Bud" Corbett said a few weeks after the shooting that a plainclothes detective had parked in front of Horn's house in response to the 911 call. He said the detective saw the men between Horn's house and his neighbor's before they crossed into Horn's front yard.
It appeared that neither Horn nor the men knew a police officer was present, Corbett said.
"It was over within seconds. The detective never had time to say anything before the shots were fired," Corbett said. "At first, the officer was assessing the situation. Then he was worried Horn might mistake him for the 'wheel man' (getaway driver). He ducked at one point."
When Horn confronted the suspects in his yard, he raised his shotgun to his shoulder, Corbett said. However the men ignored his order to freeze.
Corbett said one man ran toward Horn, but had angled away from him toward the street when he was shot in the back just before reaching the curb.
"The detective confirmed that this suspect was actually closer to Horn after he initiated his run than at the time when first confronted," said Corbett. "Horn said he felt in jeopardy."
Ortiz and Torres died a short distance from Horn's house, both shot in the back.
As the grand jury began hearing evidence in the case this month, Horn's attorney, Tom Lambright, said recently that Horn regrets his decision to confront the men.
"Was it a mistake from a legal standpoint? No. But a mistake in his life? Yes," Lambright said. "Because it's affected him terribly. And if he had it to do over again, he would stay inside.
"I don't think anybody can really appreciate the magnitude that something like this has on a person's personality."
Lambright said Horn didn't expect to be involved in a shooting, but rather expected to see the two men running or driving away.
"He thought he was gathering evidence for the police department," Lambright said.
The shooting brought hundreds of protesters to the Village Grove East subdivision where Horn lives with his daughter and her family. One protest included supporters of Houston activist Quanell X and motorcyclists countering his remarks. The protest which brought hundreds to the neighborhood led to the Pasadena City Council to approve a city ordinance banning protests in front of a residential home.
Aside from the shooting itself, the national debate revolved around the fact that Ortiz and Torres were illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres had been sent to prison for dealing cocaine and was deported in 1999.
Joe Horn cleared by grand jury in Pasadena shootings
Panel issues no-bill after two weeks of testimony
By BRIAN ROGERS and RUTH RENDON
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle
The shooting of two burglary suspects has sparked heated debate about property rights, gun control and other issues.
A Harris County grand jury decided today that Joe Horn should not be charged with a crime for shooting two suspected burglars he confronted outside his neighbor's home in Pasadena last fall.
The decision to clear Horn of wrongdoing came two weeks after the grand jury began considering evidence in the case, including Horn's testimony last week.
Horn, a 62-year-old retiree, became the focus of an intense public debate after the Nov. 14 shootings. Many supporters praised him as a hero for using deadly force to protect property, while others dismissed him as a killer who should have heeded a 911 operator's instructions to stay in his house and wait for police.
Horn called authorities after hearing breaking glass and seeing two men climb through a window into his next-door neighbor's home in the 7400 block of Timberline.
The 911 operator urged Horn to remain inside, but he went outside with his 12-gauge shotgun and came face-to-face with Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 38.
According to a transcript of Horn's 911 call, which he made about 2 p.m., the operator repeatedly urged Horn to stay in his house, but Horn said he did not believe it would be right to let the burglars get away.
"Well, here it goes, buddy," Horn can be heard telling the operator. "You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."
The operator replies: "Don't go outside."
Then the tape records Horn warning someone: "Move and you're dead!" Two quick shots can be heard, followed by a pause and then a third shot.
Pasadena police Capt. A.H. "Bud" Corbett said a few weeks after the shooting that a plainclothes detective had parked in front of Horn's house in response to the 911 call. He said the detective saw the men between Horn's house and his neighbor's before they crossed into Horn's front yard.
It appeared that neither Horn nor the men knew a police officer was present, Corbett said.
"It was over within seconds. The detective never had time to say anything before the shots were fired," Corbett said. "At first, the officer was assessing the situation. Then he was worried Horn might mistake him for the 'wheel man' (getaway driver). He ducked at one point."
When Horn confronted the suspects in his yard, he raised his shotgun to his shoulder, Corbett said. However the men ignored his order to freeze.
Corbett said one man ran toward Horn, but had angled away from him toward the street when he was shot in the back just before reaching the curb.
"The detective confirmed that this suspect was actually closer to Horn after he initiated his run than at the time when first confronted," said Corbett. "Horn said he felt in jeopardy."
Ortiz and Torres died a short distance from Horn's house, both shot in the back.
As the grand jury began hearing evidence in the case this month, Horn's attorney, Tom Lambright, said recently that Horn regrets his decision to confront the men.
"Was it a mistake from a legal standpoint? No. But a mistake in his life? Yes," Lambright said. "Because it's affected him terribly. And if he had it to do over again, he would stay inside.
"I don't think anybody can really appreciate the magnitude that something like this has on a person's personality."
Lambright said Horn didn't expect to be involved in a shooting, but rather expected to see the two men running or driving away.
"He thought he was gathering evidence for the police department," Lambright said.
The shooting brought hundreds of protesters to the Village Grove East subdivision where Horn lives with his daughter and her family. One protest included supporters of Houston activist Quanell X and motorcyclists countering his remarks. The protest which brought hundreds to the neighborhood led to the Pasadena City Council to approve a city ordinance banning protests in front of a residential home.
Aside from the shooting itself, the national debate revolved around the fact that Ortiz and Torres were illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres had been sent to prison for dealing cocaine and was deported in 1999.
highorder
Member
I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for illegal alien drug-dealing criminals killed in the comission of a felony.
Perhaps its just me.
Perhaps its just me.
jard
Member
I guess charging a guy with a shotgun isn't a good idea. Lesson learned.
trashpickinman
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When I first heard about this, I wasn't excited by the fact that the suspects were shot in the back. Never looks good for the shooter, but this was the first time I've heard that the suspect(s) were running towards the shooter. I can't say I would have gone outside in the first place, but if someone is ignoring my orders and running towards me, like in that situation, I'd have no choice but to shoot.
One way or the other he would have to live with this for the rest of his life, fortunately he's not being charged with a crime.
One way or the other he would have to live with this for the rest of his life, fortunately he's not being charged with a crime.
M2 Carbine
member
No.
No doubt that he was right and totally legal.
I've said from day one that Horn's actions were well within Texas law and that the Grand Jury would have to "No Bill" him and they did.
phantomak47
Member
Although Joe Horn was lawful in his shooting of these scumbags, he has ruined his life as he will probably have to move from his home due to the harassment that he is sure to receive from the Black panther types. He even has gone on the record through his lawyer that he wished he never shot these guys. Something to think about........
CountGlockula
Member
I hope Horn is able to overcome the trauma. That's something we don't think too much about. No matter how many CCW or self-defense courses you take; you can't assess the fact of killing another human being.
macadore
Member
Not in Joe Horn’s neighborhood.
wally
Member
Lots of mis-information floating around about this case. I believe in the Jury's decision, as with the OJ Simpson murder case -- they saw all the evidence, not only what the media wanted to spin.
At my CHL renewal, Saturday, the instructor was betting the grand jury would indict and Joe Horn "was going to jail". The "facts" he relied on for his conclusion were not part of the article mentioned above and obvioulsy were incorrect.
--wally.
At my CHL renewal, Saturday, the instructor was betting the grand jury would indict and Joe Horn "was going to jail". The "facts" he relied on for his conclusion were not part of the article mentioned above and obvioulsy were incorrect.
--wally.
elrod
Member
No, it's not just you. I get tired of the illegals getting preferencal treatment in all legal matters. (Remainder of rant witheld due to political nature).
And yes, the taking of another humans' life would haunt me the rest of my days.
CrawdaddyJim
Member
Mr. Horn made a large sacrifice for his neighbors I would like to see them back him up. I am saddened by the fact that Mr. Horn is troubled by this incident. He did the right thing. But as they say. No good deed goes unpunished.
Jim
Jim
lonegunman
Member
Note to self,,,,,,,next time I sneak
into a country illegally to rob, steal and deal drugs I will try and remember to watch out for old men with shotguns and not provoke them.
This time they can send them home for good,,,,,,
into a country illegally to rob, steal and deal drugs I will try and remember to watch out for old men with shotguns and not provoke them.
This time they can send them home for good,,,,,,
Let's try to keep this topic in one thread. Since it's a legal topic, let's use this thread in Legal: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=374391
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