Patch, went from 15 to 10 thou...questions.

[Palladan44]

Have fired my Lyman great plains rifle for years with exclusively the .0015 thickness patches lubed with good Ole bore butter. And either soft .490 round balls from Hornady and as of more recently my own hand cast balls which measure up the same. I have been utilizing Triple Seven FFF propellant for just about this whole time (15+ years) Target loads are 65-75 grains or so, and Hunting deer typically 85 grains.
I've always been able to shoot about a 3" grouping at 50 yards. Sometimes the group is slightly better, and sometimes slightly worse. To me, this is acceptable for the ranges I hunt whitetails out to, I'll shoot about 50-60 yards at most. The traditional style setup has served me very well, and I've never wanted to move to an in line.

As of recently, I was doing some target shooting and using some .0010 thickness patches. They simply are easier to ram the ball, especially after 4 or 5 or more shots. Period. So I told myself if I'm going to do a volume of fun shooting with friends (typically bust out the BP on the 4th of July) that I'd use these thinner patches for that purpose....because I can get more shots fired without having to clean.

Recently, I was using these thinner patches to "warm up" for deer season, and noticed the accuracy is approximately the same as im used to. I did retrieve some of the patches, and unfortunately all of them are chewed up to bits....which is not ideal.. not just holey, but pretty fragmented into pieces.

1) Do I not worry about it and utilize this combo w/ thin patches for the season? Accuracy is acceptable...

2) Should I be concerned with chewed up fired patches, and order some more .0015 patches and resight in?

 

[hawg]

What are your patches made of? As long as accuracy is there I wouldn't worry about what the patches look like. Mine are frayed around the edges and scorched in the middle.

 

[Palladan44]

What are your patches made of? As long as accuracy is there I wouldn't worry about what the patches look like. Mine are frayed around the edges and scorched in the middle.

They are the regular patches made for muzzleloading. I've had some made of pillow ticking that are the same material.

 

[Palladan44]

I just remember my original mentor telling me to recover a patch and if it was holey or shredded....it wasn't good. Well, never saw a shredded one until now.

 

[J-Bar]

You may be losing a few FPS with the thinner patch but if accuracy is acceptable the deer will still die. I like easier ramming my own self.

 

[hawg]

85 grains of T7 is close to 95 grains of bp. T7 burns hotter than bp so that might be a bit much for a .50 with thin patches. I always used 90 grains of bp in my 50 with .015 patches but I never bothered to recover a patch. These are from my .54 with .015 patches. If I dropped down to .010 patches they might look worse.

 

[Fyrstyk]

Try using a felt wad over the powder, and then your .010 patched round ball. Accuracy may improve, and your patches won't be torn up. You are getting "blow by" with the thinner patches as they do not seal the bore as well. the felt wad, (or you can also use a plain, unlubed patch over the powder) helps to protect the patch.

 

[Sburk1993]

I agree with hawg. I use .490 with 60grain of. Pyrodex rs and 15 patches they look the same as his. not as dark but the same condition. My rifle is picky on loads it's 60 grain and a 15 or it's all over the place . Don't know why but it is. Hunting is just fine. I double lunged my deer last year at 65 ish yards with no problem. 10 patches basically disintegrate and that's no good.

 

[hawg]

I could prevent the scorching with a different lube but why mess with perfection.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I use .018 canvas duck material from Wally World. I use a couple of drops of Pinesol as a patch lube over 65 grains of powder in my Great Plains rifle. Accuracy is excellent and no blown patches. If you live in an area that has hornet nests the outer paper stuff can be used as a filler between the powder and patch. It solves the burnt out patch thing quite well.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I use linen that measures out to about .014 with a .570 RB in my 58 cal.

It frays it a bit but the weave is pretty coarse so that may play a part.

I get accuracy like this at 60 yds with Marbles open sights so I don’t fret much.

 

[hawg]

My patches are .015 pillow ticking with a .530 round ball. It's a tight fit but very accurate. I doubt I could get an .018 patched ball down the bore without a hammer. It's accurate enough I was confident enough to make a measured 65 yard behind the ear headshot on a doe, a shot I normally wouldn't take.

 

[Palladan44]

I'm contemplating trying .495 roundballs with these thin patches and see what happens. I'd also like to get some .015 patches again with the .490s.
Never have I ever experimented with different combos, rather just used what I had- what I was given the time I was first handed a muzzeloader.

Another thing on my list is to get some finer sights, because I know this rifle can be far more accurate than the sights allow. The front post nearly covers up the 8 1/2" x 11" target at 50 yds. I literally square up the top corners of the sight with the paper...not ideal.

 

[hawg]

Shooting a muzzleloader pretty much requires trying different things until you find something that works. Different patch thickness, ball size, powder charge, etc, etc, etc. I did not intend to use a 90 grain charge in my .54. I was figuring 100-110 grains but the charge for my .50 was 90 grains so I started there and the thing was just so accurate with 90 grains I knew I couldn't improve on it. I was a little worried about not getting an exit wound with a .54 ball but those fears were unfounded.

 

[Palladan44]

Shooting a muzzleloader pretty much requires trying different things until you find something that works. Different patch thickness, ball size, powder charge, etc, etc, etc. I did not intend to use a 90 grain charge in my .54. I was figuring 100-110 grains but the charge for my .50 was 90 grains so I started there and the thing was just so accurate with 90 grains I knew I couldn't improve on it. I was a little worried about not getting an exit wound with a .54 ball but those fears were unfounded.

In about 5 whitetails harvested with my Great Plains rifle .50 and patched ball, I've never had an exit wound yet. And I'm always surprised how little blood there is when trailing. One time there was none at all. I've always had them fall within about 150 yards, but typically only 40-50 yds. The results are just fine and I don't expect patched ball to do what a PSP or JHP or ballistic tip does. Using patched ball on game larger than whitetails would get me thinking a bit harder on it...

 

[hawg]

That's what I didn't like about my .50. No exit wound means little to no blood trail. With the same powder charge you'd think the bigger ball wouldn't have an exit wound either but it does.

 

[Palladan44]

That's what I didn't like about my .50. No exit wound means little to no blood trail. With the same powder charge you'd think the bigger ball wouldn't have an exit wound either but it does.

Yeah, more inertia with the heavier ball I can see accomplishing that.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I've always preferred to go to a smaller ball, rather than a thinner patch. With my Jeager, where I use a very heavy powder charge, the patch will shred badly. But if I put a waxed wool-wad over the powder, and a lubed wool wad between that and the ball, the patches come out able to be used again. (which I don't actually do, but could) Same results with two lubed wool wads, but as I often leave the rifle loaded for long periods of time, that will contaminate the powder, hence the bee's wax-wool wad over the powder.

Good luck!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Yeah, more inertia with the heavier ball I can see accomplishing that.

Right, more velocity, more expansion, less penetration. More weight, more inertia, more penetration.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

And then there's .62 caliber. It's gone through three deer (one good size buck at a paced off 110 paces) and one bear. Those balls may still be going!!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I don't expect patched ball to do what a PSP or JHP or ballistic tip does.

Round balls act much like expanding bullets...they expand, which slows penetration. The "parachute" effect.

 

[hawg]

When I had mine built I wanted to go with a .58 but he made me such a good deal on the .54 barrel I couldn't turn it down. I figured I could always swap it out later but it just shoots too good.

 

[J-Bar]

Checked the open iron sights on my TC .54 Hawken today; target at 50 yards, .520 ball patched with pillow ticking, 85 grains 2F Schuetzen under the PAM lubed patch. Really easy loading. Slid down the bore with no effort, but solid enough that I knew it would not shift.

I can accept this. (I also checked my .270 Winchester sights. Remington 130 grain Core Lokts. Those 2 holes that are 2” high are right where I want them.)

I’m ready!