Patterning 101....

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Great Info! Thanks!

I shoot with Trap people that also say that you want between a 60/40 and a 80/20 pattern. That's 60 to 80% above the dot.

Skeet boys tend to shoot a flatter gun; close to 50/50...

Any ideas on that?
 
i'm curious if anyone knows if i can do this at any particular range in SE WI?? to the best of my knowledge the ranges in my area only allow shotguns for skeet/trap and not patterning. being a rookie, this would of course be one of the first things i'd be doing in preparation for the fall.
 
I'm not sure that you DO get what you pay for, always.

I shoot with a mechanical engineer who got bored and mic'd 100 #8 pellets from a factory AA shell and 100 from a factory STS.

He said the AA pellets ranged from #6 to #12, whereas the STS outliers were #7 to #9, with a lot of true #8.

I know that STS shot looks very round and very consistent when I buy it in bags, but I've never mic'd it. It does appear to be better than some other shot, and when I dump some on the floor, it rolls like steel ball bearings.

The points are these:

1. STS and AA are the same price, and they do differ
2. Not all "premium" shells are all that premium
3. The only way you really know what you are paying for is to buy the components, not sealed-up shells. You can't pattern every round before you shoot it.:)
 
Anyone wanting to buy Brister's book on Shotgunning, go to website alibris.com. I bought my copy for $5.50 + $3.95 shipping.

Also, bought Jack O'Connor's Shotgun Book for $5.50 + $3.95shipping. Since these books have been out of print for many years, they are good used books.

I buy most of my books from alibris.com and they have just about any book you want including college textbooks for a fraction of the new price.
 
Time for a fly in the ointment

I hold the belief that patterning for the purpose of finding results for moving targets not using buckshot, is of limited value. My reasons follow:

Patterning results will vary with the shells used (brands and different shot sizes do not give the same patterning results), the temperature of the shells and the temperature of the barrel. One or a dozen patterns will not yield a good average. More are required. Patterning is best done using a good, solid, rest of the type used by rifle shooters.

Now the big one: Patterning results represent only the shots fired with the eye in exactly the same location relative to the rib as was used when patterning. To refer to Dave's Churchillian quote, when the head and eye move, the pattern also moves (in the same direction.)

This is the reason for many misses when the shot picture seemed so good. The cause was movement of the head on the stock during swings. It is especially common with guns that don't fit and with gun mounts that are too low or are out on the shoulder joint rather than in the shoulder pocket. In both cases, it is common for the head to move up or away form the stock on swings in the direction of the gun mount side, to the right for right-handed shooters.

As Dave(?) also mentioned, patterning is a two-dimensional representation of a three-dimensional event. It is due to shot stringing and its effect on crossing targets. In this case, the shot that reaches a crossing target is not at all well represented by patterning results. This holds true for all but gently rising targets and the effect increases with the distance to the target.

Head movement during swings is a frequent and usually unrecognized shooting error. The causes involve a poor shooting form, usually involving the gun mount, raising the head to get a better look aat the target and stock dimensions that do not fit the size and shape of the shooter, which, often, can affect the shooting form being used.

Such are my beliefs. My intent is not to open an argument with anyone but simply to address variables that exist and their affect when shooting moving targets, whether they be clay or feathered, and those gotten when patterning.

Rollin

Rollin
 
Rollin Oswald,

Interesting perspectives.

My take:
Shotguns are pointed not aimed.
Exceptions exist, such as "aiming" for some uses such as slugs.
Still for ME, a shotgun is a natural extension of me, and therefore due to gun fit, and correct basics, the shotgun is "pointed", even for stationary targets.

My preference is to pattern in the same manner as the gun will be used.
I apply this to sighting in handguns, and rifles.

My take again, One is going to be using a shotgun in various "settings", not from a bench (unless card shooting) and this includes standing, while walking, running and having to aquire a stationary target, while they are moving.

It might be sitting in a duck blind, on a stool while dove hunting, or as I was given lessons to do, shooting from the bed of a moving truck and shooting both stationary targets and targets in flight.

[Think Civil unrest, and "still" targets and "flight" targets such as Firebombs being tossed - shoot firebomb, and prevent hitting porches, roof tops, or groups of persons]

Brister's work, in regard to moving targets - opened many eyes to "shotgunning".

Recall, The Military was teaching soldiers to shoot on the move (trucks) and to acquire stationary and moving targets before Brister's work.
Add
Artillery were shooting skeet to instill correct basics to shoot planes...

Backing up, I was born in the mid 50's. Just a brat and I have Mentors & Elders shoot a pattern board.
Then they had a "moving" target, and using same gun, same loads, same distance, shoot again, and compare patterns.

I am not even big enough to really shoot a shotgun by myself.
I got to use a garden hose and a "pattern" of water to do this myself.

Light bulb was on for me, early on, and got even brighter as time went on, and with Brister's Work.

My take is be one with a fitted gun.
Heck even if one just has to pick up a gun that does not fit, shoot that sucker if can, to see where it shoots to them in relation to Point of Pointing and "compensate".

No matter, know the gun, the pattern and "Zen" that Pattern as a moving one.

5mph differs from 15mph differs from 55 mph (speed of a clay in Skeet) to 65-ish, speed of Int'l Skeet.


Re: Buckshot & Slugs

I do shoot moving targets with buckshot. Safe field to do so, and use a skeet field and 4" clays.
IF, I can make hits using Fed nine pellet 00 buckshot, on a 4" clay, on clays moving 55 mph, and the various angles, I *might* have a real chance if a Serious Situation should occur.
Lady Luck is for sure welcome to show up too!

Slugs, break low 7 with a slug. Now I am not in the condition I once was, still I can still do this.
I shoot slugs from the back of a truck at stationary targets going anywhere from 5 to faster mph [ 60mph is "interesting"] and moving targets, like a 8" ball hit by a baseball bat , or thrown...

My take - in the real word, "something is moving" . Either the shooter just has, will be, and body is breathing, or the target is moving, just has, or will be.

See it, slap trigger, access, repeat as need.

One has to have trigger time, and correct basics, still in a threat situation, quality practice, knowing what the pattern board "said" and moving patterns "said" - done, past history, See, Access,Slap,Acesss, Move, Slap, Do something but don't stand there and make one's self an easy target for Threats.

I miss not having a tennis ball machine and the accessories.
Total rush is shooting tennis balls coming at you, and crossers hitting 90mph speeds.

I cannot explain having a low gun, here a faint click and a tennis ball coming at your face at 80 mph and busting that sucker with a nine pellet 00 buckshot load.

Not sure I could do this today, still I recall the sight pictures and everything!

Tennis Ball Flurries [coming at you] and two man teams are a real hoot! Shoot, move, shoot, move, DUCK! :p

s
 
I have always just played around with my shot gun. Shot a few hundred clays. Went on my truly 1st Turkey hunt with it last year and got one,
my son shot a doe a few years back with the rifled barrel.
I have recently started getting into Sporting Clays, that is great fun and the info shared by all about patterning is of great help.
 
On a hot Summer day in 1974, in a short sleeved shirt, I went to the Issac Walton League at lunch time to pattern some of my very first shotshell reloads - 1-7/8 ounces of #2s over DuPont SR4756 if I remember right, in a new Remington 870 Wingmaster Magnum with all the Vari-weights removed. I remember the event distinctly. It was waaaaaaay more than just a bit of a pain. :barf: :) That first shot I took two steps backward to keep from falling down.
With Alcan FliteMax wads, and buffer, copper plated shot, and all get out, I got up to 92% patterns, and killed a goose with the first shot ever fired at one out of that gun. Many years later, and hundreds and hundreds of dollars in barrel work, and choke tubes, nickel plated shot, buffers, and every shotcup known to man, I never ever achieved long range patterns that good again. And all I could do was try, because heaven help me, I had sold that gun. :banghead: One of only two guns I ever regretted selling.
And Man, I have killed a lot of paper since then.
 
Dave, I got into a argument with my father about gauge and pattern size at a particular distance. You see i use a .410 on Grouse and he uses a .20 . He thinks his pattern will be bigger than the 410 at a given distance. I'm under the understanding that the more Power the tighter the group and more likely to miss at shorter distance. Generally when shooting Grouse they are within 20 to 30 yards
 
Given the same degree of choke,shot size, etc, the 410 and the 20 gauge patterns will be the same at a given distance.

The 20 gauge pattern will be denser with more pellets in it.
 
If you want large cheap sheets of paper, with 1x1 inch grids lightly printed, wrapping paper is a convenient option (esp. after Christmas sales). The side you remember is bright and has pictures, but the reverse side usually has the 1x1 grid (to help with wrapping).
 
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