Shooting low help

[Mike128]

I have been patterning my shotgun and found I'm shooting a little low. If I shoot at a rifle taget, the top of my pattern is hitting the center of the target. The center of the pattern is about 6 inches low at 20 yards.

I've already tried different chokes and shells. Most of them pattern is the same spot. The rest pattern even lower. I've already have the lowest front bead I can get.

Is there a way to have the barrel bent ever so slightly to raise the pattern up?

 

[rcmodel]

Changing the pitch of the stock is generally how you change the POI.

A straigher stock will pattern higher.

Any chance you were just getting down on the stock harder then you normally would when bringing the gun up and shooting at a bird?
In otherwords, trying to sight down the barrel like a rifle?

And also holding it down harder then you normally would so it can't kick up and hit you in the face?

That ain't the way it works when wing shooting.

They standing facing the target, bring the gun up normally and fire when you get the muzzle on the target.
Don't worry about what the rest of the barrel is doing.

rc

 

[ArmedBear]

The lowest front bead? Huh?

Just that one phrase makes me wonder what you're doing. The size of the bead should make absolutely no difference at all.

What do you see when you mount the gun?

Do you see rib?

 

[oneounceload]

If you see rib, you'll be shooting high - if you're "scrunching" down on the stock, or trying to aim it like a rifle, or the stock doesn't fit, or your mount is off.....etc., etc., etc.....you can see how complex this can get. it sounds like one of two things - either your stock doesn't fit properly (more than LOP), or you're pulling the fore end down as you shoot trying to hold the gun in place.

You haven't said what gun this is - O/U, SxS, semi, pump???

 

[ArmedBear]

If you see rib, you'll be shooting high

If you see a very little bit of rib or you're looking just exactly horizontally along it, you should be right-on. If the rib disappears completely and goes below flat, i.e. if the size of the rib matters at all to POI, then you probably are just pointing the gun below horizontal.

 

[Mike128]

I'm shooting a Benelli M1. I did change to a larger bead that sits flat on the raised rib. When I shoot, all I see is the bead, no rib. This is how I shot other M1's and not had this problem.

My current shotgun started with a small bead sitting on the rib, but the small bead was harder to pick up. So I switched it for a larger bead that still sits directly on the rib, without a platform. This shotgun shot low with the original bead and new bead. It also shoots low with several different chokes and shotshell combination. Just about all the pattern in the same spot, just a little low. I just want the meat of the pattern up 4-6 inches.

Armed Bear,
The reason I mention the lowest bead possible is because of a previous shotgun I changed the bead on. The new bead sat on a little platform that attached to the rib. That bead/platform combination made me shoot low. Going with a bead that sat on the rib made the shotgun dead on again.



I'll repeat that I have shot other M1's and SBE's extensively and do not have a problem shooting low with them. Only the current M1 that I own and I would like to raise the shot pattern up.

 

[DaleCooper51]

Not sure if the M1's have shims available for drop as my old black eagle does, but you might try one with a lesser amount of drop. If it doesn't have shims, try a bit of moleskin to raise the comb a bit and see if that helps you shoot higher.

There are other possible issues, but this one is easy to check.

 

[ArmedBear]

The new bead sat on a little platform that attached to the rib. That bead/platform combination made me shoot low. Going with a bead that sat on the rib made the shotgun dead on again.

Oh yeah. I think I saw something like that stuck on an Extrema 2 the other day. I'm not sure why someone would do that.

I was thinking only of standard beads, not those things, whatever they are.

It certainly is possible that it shoots below flat, especially since you are comparing it to other M1s.

It doesn't sound like it's gun fit, or shooting technique. I wish I knew what to tell you.

 

[Mike128]

I bought that platform thing back in my earlier and more niave days. I still don't know what I was thinking.

Right now I'm about ready to stick this between two trees and start pulling. I have the lowest shim possible right now. I do hit ducks but just not solid as I would like. I actually miss more when they are close and the pattern doesn't open up enough.

 

[oneounceload]

First - don't look at the beads - look at your target, whether clay or feather. If your gun fits properly, the bead is a non-issue. Looking right down the rib and not seeing it, especially on a field gun, will put your shot on target,while target guns will let you "float" the target above the beads

 

[ArmedBear]

First - don't look at the beads - look at your target, whether clay or feather. If your gun fits properly, the bead is a non-issue.

That's true.

But he's talking about patterning. Patterning is not shooting. It's done using a precise aim, generally with the bead sitting exactly on a perfectly flat rib, and covering the dot in the middle of the patterning circle.

If the gun shoots low on the patterning board, you're talking about a whole different issue. Like I said, it's not gun fit or technique. The barrel is shooting low.

 

[oneounceload]

While he may have started out patterning, his post suggests he is concerned with POI.

OP - find a spot on the wall of your house, start with your (unloaded) gun low. Close your eyes and mount the gun, then open - are you looking at your spot? Are you seeing too much rib?

While it is possible that a barrel is off, especially if it is a cheap gun - IME, guns shooting to a different POI from POA are typically a gun fit issue

 

[Mike128]

oneounce,
The gun fits me fine, I think. Pulling the gun up like I would when shooting at birds/clays I just see the bead. No rib, just bead.

I'll admit that I don't have the best form and I'm not the best shooter. When I shoot, I can't tell you what I'm doing since I'm just shooting on reflex. But I do get a pretty good hit percentage if my POA and POI are the same.

I've shot other M1's and did not have this problem. If you think I need to adjust the stock what should I do. Add a higher cheek piece or lower the cheek piece?

 

[oneounceload]

An adjustable butt pad that will allow you to raise/lower what in effect is the comb, should help. It sounds like you need to either lower the comb or raise the front bead. An adjustable recoil pad will allow you to effectively lower the comb. Picture a straight line along your rib. If it is shooting low, you need to find a way to raise the POI - that would mean lowering the rear or raising the front

 

[kirbythegunsmith]

Details

Perhaps somebody should consider that the choke tube hole is off in the barrel.
I have tried to educate shooters of this typical situation for a very long time and don't see straight chokes being a common occurrence, but the opposite is definitely common.

I never could understand why some advice from shooters that I know have read my previous postings would neglect to mention the choke angle problem but emphasize the stock adjustment shim issue. At least choke error might rate a mention, presuming we are really trying to be helpful and not parochial.

If you have a mis-aligned front end on your car, do you reset the steering wheel or want a proper mechanical alignment?

If your shooting impact is off, do you want to change your sight picture to substitute for a bent barrel or crooked choke? A small error of impact might not mean much, but we are talking about a specific and substantial problem here that adds to about a foot off at 40 yards.

I cut off plenty of crooked barrels to install new straight choke holes. Not many would want to pay for a repair that they don't feel was something that was their fault, but if the factories say that the barrel tolerance is close enough for them, what choices do you have?
Live with it or bite the bullet.
I tell shooters that a shorter barrel with a straight choke is better than a longer barrel with a really crooked choke. Anybody that can't realize that fact is beyond my help.

I am not saying that shims have no place, just that they are not the end of discussion for shooter fit correction or impact adjustment.
A straight choke is not a cure-all for all shooter problems, but is a fundamental part of working towards perfection.

A straight choke is as important to a shooter as a high horsepower engine is to a racer, since it is tough to make the winner's circle without those details going for you.

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