patterning an hd shotgun

[AcceptableUserName]

can someone outline their personal habits/preferences? Starting this thread for reference and comparison. please be as detailed as possible! thanks


ive been taking 3 or 4 different loads, giving them 2 shots apiece at 15 yards and comparing. Do you think I should take it out to 25? Do both 15 AND 25? More than 2 shots? Is there a recommended way of testing penetration? From what I gathered buffered shot will go a bit deeper. I'm starting to get pretty fussy over my ammo. I do work around sheetrock every day so I have plenty to spare. Do you recommend certain dimensions to cut?

How do I obtain/formulate ballistic gel?


I'm actually looking to single out 5 buckshot loads and 3 slug loads to focus on out of the readily available stuff for my pumpguns, for different purposes. I don't mind a "mystery pile" either. Looking at a a good 2 3/4" reduced recoil 00 9 pellet 00 load, a good tight straight-head full power 00, a looser 00 load (see : Winchester Super X maybe?), a medium-to loose #1 or #4 load, and a good 3" load just because, either 00 or 000.

 

[rcmodel]

Personally, to get a 25 yard shot during home defense, I would have to go out in the front yard and shoot into the back yard.

I think the cops would frown on me shooting someone at that distance.

Perhaps 7 yards or closer is a more realistic HD distance, and at 7 yards or closer, any 00 Buck load will do just fine without testing it first.

I would do longer range buckshot patterning if I were going deer hunting with it however.

rc

 

[AcceptableUserName]

You are right Rc. I'd only do it to establish the knowledge of what it will do overall. Seems to me that 25 yards, as opposed to 15, would be a good universal standard to judge the loads by. I.e. if it does the best @ 25, it'll do the best at others. But I've heard people say the characteristics can change greatly from 25 down to 10/15 yds, so maybe two or even more (30, 35 yds) ranges are necessary for a comprehensive evaluation. I like to cover all the bases so I don't end up wishing they were covered later on.

Also wondering if the Remingtons, seeing as how they implement an "improved cylinder", rather than the Mossberg/traditional straight cylinder/open bore, pattern any meaningful amount better? That was something I meant to bring up awhile back. I wish I still had an express laying around I could compare it to. I'm also unsure if the barrels on the older Wingmaster police/police magnums pre-1985 or so had open bore rather than IC.

 

[natman]

The longest shot possible inside my house (my back against the far wall of the bathroom, down the entire length of the hall) is 21 feet or 7 yards. 15 yards is almost as long as the front of my house. I'd have to be standing outside to get a 15 yard shot. 25 yards is longer than the width of my lot.

Try a few loads, but look for a good match between point of aim and point of impact. At 7 yards the pattern is only going to be a few inches across.

 

[wgp]

In a recent class the instructor had us pattern tactical shotguns for two reasons: First, it demonstrated that some loads pattern much more tightly than others. Second, we came away with a much better idea of the ranges at which our shotguns were "precise" enough to attempt a shot at a bad guy using a hostage as a shield. I learned things that I would not have known otherwise about my gun and loads.

 

[oneounceload]

My longest shot could possibly be 60 feet - that's one end of the house to the other, so for me, I would look at 15-20 yards maximum, testing at 5 yards and going back about 3 yards each time to notice anything that might change.

I doubt buffering will change penetration - that's based on mass and velocity. It MIGHT , maybe, change patterns because buffering is supposed to help stop pellet deformation upon firing, but with large pellets and short ranges, I still have doubts about serious effectiveness in that regard.

There are numerous videos out there about wall penetration tests - don't forget to figure in things like wiring and piping.

I believe there's been enough testing by various reputable groups out there to just look at their data for a starting point.

Your basic 00 buck is always a good beginning. Try the reduced recoil as well.

Factor in what's behind a possible target (windows, kids, etc)

Let us know what you find out

 

[Gunfighter123]

Pie plate pattern at 15 yards sounds good to me !!!

 

[Fred Fuller]

I want all the pellets in the load on a sheet of typing paper at 25 yards. If it can manage that I'll be happy. IMHO tighter patterns are better.

A few 'points' of choke help even out patterns, whether they tighten them up a lot is pretty moot. A certain number of factory barrels marked CYL will still have a few points of choke (.005" more or less) built in for that reason. An ImpCyl barrel usually has ten points (.010") of choke, which isn't much. But in a riot gun, it should be plenty.

Sounds to me like you're on the verge of overcomplicating things with all those loads. One buckshot load and one slug load ought to be enough, and even that might be one load too many.

lpl

 

[AcceptableUserName]

well, i agree to a point. i dont want to open a can of worms here, but i do intend on having a pgo in the fold again at some point, and id use a different load in that than i would a "proper" shotgun, probably a #1 or #4 in Super X or Remington. I am a believer in good old school Super X for some purposes. I would also like to keep some 3" on hand, just because, both slug and buck. The reduced recoil 00 is mainly for more recoil-sensitive/smaller users should the need arise so id like to find the best out of that and then just get a decent amount of it.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Oh, shoot, if you're just talking about accumulating various kinds of ammo, that's different. I have three or four .50 cal ammo cans full of buckshot and slugs marked MISC SHOTGUN that have everything from S&B to Federal Premium in them, just to check patterns out of different barrels etc.

And looking at setting up a shotgun for a friend's possible blowboat venture into the Caribbean, I am likely to be buying even more odds and ends (Dixie TriBall, 3" 000 buck etc) to experiment with as well.

lpl

 

[AcceptableUserName]

The Triball interests me as well...but it's a pricey curiosity that's for sure. I'm talking about a purposeful accumulation to an extent...the bulk of what I store is straight ahead tight, reliable 00 and good budget slugs - in my case, Federal flitewad tactical or not and Winchester super x rifled hp slugs.

 

[Fred Fuller]

What I've bought by the case for the past several months are Brenneke KOs for slugs and Federal LE-127 00 for buckshot. They work well in every shotgun I've tried them in so far.

There's a goodly stock of S&B buckshot here too, since one time years ago when it was irresistibly cheap. But what we depend on day to day is the tighter patterning stuff.

fwiw,

lpl

 

[figment]

we pattern with rolls of butcher paper. unroll from one to the other using about 5' of paper. shoot, roll forward, shoot. viola! pattern. (not penetration)

 

[AcceptableUserName]

thats what ive been doing figment. it works well.

 

[Al LaVodka]

I'd say pattern it for what the particular choke is designed to optimize (70-75% of the shot in a 30" circle) at. HD? OC? 15 to 20 yards, tops.
Al

 

[huntsman]

Do you think I should take it out to 25? Do both 15 AND 25?

I use 3 distances 10, 25 and 50 yards. 50 has nothing to do with SD but WTSHTF I want to know what I can do with that gun and 50 is my limit for deer with a smooth bore and no sights.

 

[zhyla]

This may be a stupid question but if you say had a roughly circular pattern of X diameter at 15 yards, would it not be 2*X at 30 yards? The shot is no longer touching at 15 yards, is it?

 

[Youngster]

I've tried just about every load I could get my hands on and have developed a preference for Winchester Supreme 00 and everybody's 000, whiles it's Brenneke and Remington Sluggers for slugs.

 

[Al LaVodka]

Um, yeah on the dia. but what do you mean "touching"?
Al

 

[zhyla]

Um, yeah on the dia. but what do you mean "touching"?
Al

Like, when it leaves the barrel the individual shots are close together, so they can influence each other's flight by bumping together. But once they're spread out they should just go in a straight path, right?

So you're saying yes, you can extrapolate the pattern from one distance to another?

 

[huntsman]

But once they're spread out they should just go in a straight path, right?

There’s a lot more going on than touching, mainly wind resistance and gravity.

 

[zhyla]

There’s a lot more going on than touching, mainly wind resistance and gravity.

Sure, but nothing involving the shotgun. Seems like you ought to be able to extrapolate to longer ranges. Maybe you need to account for the instability of the individual shot, that probably makes it wander more over distance. But we're talking about 50 yards max here, that probably doesn't come into play.

 

[Al LaVodka]

Like, when it leaves the barrel the individual shots are close together, so they can influence each other's flight by bumping together. But once they're spread out they should just go in a straight path, right?

So you're saying yes, you can extrapolate the pattern from one distance to another?

Correct. However, as intimated, "straight line" here just means they only sorta continue in their vector... Essentially, a Modified choke 30" pattern at 30 yards is a 5-foot pattern at 60 yards. Huzzah!
Al

 

[jhallrv4]

Lee, I'm not familiar with this "typing paper" of which you speak.