Pedersoli Kodiak Double Rifles...revisited!

[4xfourfun]

Hey Guys,

By the previous post it looks as though several of you have had trouble getting your Kodiaks to pattern well. Is this a common problem? Have most of you been able to solve this by experimenting with different loads? I've been wanting one for awhile and I'm just starting to look hard for one but this problem has me a little worried. I think I would prefer a .54 or .58 caliber since I will be hunting mainly deer. Of course a .50 or even .72 cal for the right price doesn't sound bad either What do you guys think? Anybody know where there is a good used one on the market, other then the internet auctions?

Thanks!

 

[Pancho]

Several years ago I bought a CVA 50 cal.double rifle as a factory second for $80. The manual states that the barrels are set to converge at 90 yards. At 50yards the groups are about 15 inches. The main difference between the CVA and the Kodiak is that the Kodiak has double rear folding sights that are adjustable for elevation and windage the CVA only has one. I've checked the price on a set of double sights and it's about $150 from Pedersoli! The guns is in my gun closet waiting for me to make a decision.
A friend of mine who has more money than God collects turn of the century double rifles all of his have three blade folding rear sights.

 

[4xfourfun]

Wow, a $150 for a sight! I can't see spending that on a sight either. As for your friend, I wish I had his funds! Most of the time I have to get rid of something to gain another toy, man I hate that! I saw a Pedersoli Kodiak in 45/70 that had the triple rear sight, it looked factory but I'm not sure. That would be the best way to go I guess. I've even been debating building one. My dad builds custom flintlock rifles and assembles a lot of kits for people. He has offered to help me build one. He said we could use an old wall hanger black powder double for the locks, hardware, etc.... and he has some barrels we could put together. The only real cost would be some small items and a stock. I told him I wouldn't mind buying a production model and tring it out to see if I would even like it or not. If I like it maybe he can help me build one down the road, I'm sure it would take a little time. Why was yours a second? Are there noticeable flaws? If you ever decide to part with it let me know, as I would be very interested in trying it out.

Thanks!
-Ben
[email protected]

 

[Pancho]

CVA has a booth at the national shoot in Friendship Ind. and occasionally they bring seconds. They only had the one double rifle and the problem was that the barrel lug that holds the forearm on was broken off. It was no problem to fix.
As I understand it the manufacturers must align the barrels and sight them in at a certain converge today they probably use bore sighting to get it right and then solder the barrels together in the old days the craftsmen would wire the barrels together and shoot them to achieve desired alignment.. The better the craftsmen the better the accuracy and the more expensive the gun.
My Express double is a first generation and the alignment problem probably was apparent because CVA introduced a second generation with a goofy looking ring around the muzzle to allow for adjustment. The ring might have worked I don't know but it sure looked terrible.
Now that you bring it up, If a double is aligned to converge at say 100yds. It would take a lot of shooting to determine the patterns at shorter and longer yardage. Pedersoli took care of that with the double adjustable sights.

 

[4xfourfun]

I remember going to Friendship when I was younger, wouldn't mind going again. It's a neat place.

I have seen the adjustable barrel rings you talk of, man they look bad! But maybe it solved some of the problem?

When we were talking about building a custom double rifle we had planned to bore sight it around 100 yards. If you think about it, when the balls leave the muzzle they should be around 1.5" apart. If they come together and center at 100 yards then that means they "should" only be about 1.5" apart again at 200 yards. Of course, they would not be this accurate with all the variables but you should have a pretty accurate rifle at 50-100 yards either way.

PS Have you decided to clean out your closet yet?

 

[Pancho]

That is my problem. There are so many variables with a muzzleloder that multiplying by two just had me toolblocked. The gun is in my closet and I want to give it another chance.

 

[unspellable]

Modern BP doubles

CVA's problem was that they WERE bore sighted. The barrels were placed in a jig and bore sighted to converge at 90 yards or what ever, then soldered. The rub is that this does NOT produce a set of barrels that shoot to the same point. They must be toed in rather than bore sighted. If you take a bore sight on a pair of well regulated barrels the bore sighting will converge at a point very close to the muzzles.

The reality is that the rifle moves under recoil and starts to swing as soon as the bullet begins to move. That part of recoil movement that takes place before the bullet exits the muzzle is termed "jump".

In the case of the Kodiak the barrels are assembled in a jig with a predetermined amount of toe in that is supposed to be an "average". This is an improvement on the CVA method as there is some toe in and results in a "partially regulated" barrel set. Most Kodials will shoot a reasonable hunting group from one sight if the load is right.

Every barrel is a rule on to itself and so a quality double requires some trial and error adjustemnt to obtain good regulation.

Once you have a rifle in hand, it does pay to attempt to find a good load that will be "in regulation".

Tips on finding a load.

If it's a front loader, wear something that protects the skin on the underside of your off wrist lest you discover the hard way why they made both right and left hand locks on single barrel rifles.

Start at 50 yards, when you get close extend the range to 100 yards.

Fire standing, NOT from a sitting bench or sitting position. If you use a rest, use shooting sticks and keep you hand between the sticks and the fore arm. (At the works, fine doubles are test fired from a "standing bench".)

Determine if the rifle is shooting "cross eyed" or "wall eyed".

If all else is equal:

A heavier bullet will tend to shoot more wall eyed, a lighter one more cross eyed.

In a smokeless rifle, more powder will tend to shoot more cross eyed, less powder more wall eyed.

With BP this is a bit trickier. The idea is that more velocity will shoot more cross eyed but increased recoil will shoot more wall eyed, adding black powder increases recoil more than adding smokeless.

Shoot for group. Worry about sight adjustment after you have a decent group.

If all else fails, and it's a muzzle loader, consdier a different bullet for each barrel. This may help with vertical dispersion.

 

[Pancho]

How would you suggest I determine if the gun is walleyed or crosseyed.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

How would you suggest I determine if the gun is walleyed or crosseyed.

Shoot it -- and mark where each ball hits. If balls or bullets from the right barrel are hitting to the right of those from the left barrel, it's walleyed. If they're hitting to the left of the left barrel, it's crosseyed.

 

[Pancho]

Vern, would you start at converge distance?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Vern, would you start at converge distance?

That's one way.

Mostly, though, shooters start at the desired zero range (usually but not always 100 yards) and experiment with bullet weights and powder charges to get the barrels to converge at that range.

 

[Pancho]

Vern, would it be reasonable to assume that barrels spaced 1.25" on center "should" shoot about that at 50 yds. which is my usual sighting distance. I hunt in rough terrain and shots over that are "hail maries"