Pennsylvania residents might want to read the following.

[alan]

Dear Alan,

2006 Pro-Gun Legislation to be Introduced!!!

Are you frustrated with constantly being on the defensive
legislatively?

We are TOO!

In my lifetime of involvement with 2nd Amendment issues there has NEVER
been an opportunity like this for PA Gun Owners! We ACTUALLY have a
unique opportunity to take back freedoms we have lost but to do that WE
NEED YOUR HELP!!

WE, the grassroots gun and sportsmen's groups of PA have been hard at
work for over 8 months quietly preparing a pro-active legislative
package of bills that will 'greatly' enhance our rights and correct
some of the currently existing legislative wrongs. We have been
working behind the scenes with legislators drafting this legislation;
we now need YOUR help in enacting it into law. Rep. Daryl Metcalfe
(12th District-PA House) and Senator John Pippy (37th District-PA
Senate) are prime sponsors in introducing this landmark legislation to
end the illegal registration of Firearms Owners. This legislation is
currently co-sponsored by 37 members of the PA House of Representatives
and 7 members of the PA Senate.

Speakers will cover many additional issues of concern to Pennsylvania
gun owners such as:
1. The Duty to Retreat Law-the Castle Doctrine and Punitive Lawsuits
against gun owners.
2. Ending the ban on carrying a concealed firearm in state parks.
3. Ending the ban on carrying a firearm while riding an ATV (affects
police as well as citizens).
4. Ending the ban on carrying a self-defense firearm while hunting
(affects police as well as citizens).
For too long Pennsylvania gun owners have tolerated the introduction of
and deliberation on so-called reasonable gun control measures that
place us all at risk while at the same time turning us into
unintentional criminals! NOW IS YOUR CHANCE TO CORRECT THIS!

The grassroots organizations supporting this legislation are listed
below:
(ACSL) Allegheny County Sportsmen's League,
(PSA) Pennsylvania Sportsmen's Association,
(PFSC) Pennsylvania Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs,
(PGOA) Pennsylvania Gun Owners Association,
(GOA) Gun Owners of America,
(USP) Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania
(PSF&GPA)Pennsylvania State Fish & Game Protective Assoc.,
(PFSC) Philadelphia Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs,
(CCGO) Clarion County Gun Owners,
(FOAC) Firearms Owners Against Crime will record a vote for this
legislation as a Pro-Gun vote.

This is a perfect opportunity for all gun owners and sportsmen and
women who feel that the legislature has not heard their concerns to
make their voices heard. A good turnout of gun owners and sportsmen at
this event will be of immeasurable benefit for years to come. We will
also conduct grassroots lobbying exercises for interested gun owners
after the rally (Please contact me for additional information on
joining in this activity).

Buses are being arranged that will leave from the Pittsburgh area
(Parkway Center Mall) the morning of the rally (4AM) and leave
Harrisburg the same day (3PM). Cost will be approximately $30 per
person that covers the trip and refreshments. IF you would like to
drive instead, parking will be available at the Farm Show Complex. For
More Information and/or Travel Arrangements contact Kim Stolfer,
FOAC/ACSL, by phone at (412) 221-3346, or by E-Mail at
[email protected].

Thank you for your time and consideration of this critically important
message! Flyers are attached for your use in informing and encouraging
fellow gun owners to attend this event.

Remember: "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men
to do nothing." Edmund Burke (Founding Father)

Best Regards,

Kim Stolfer, Chairman
Legislative Committee
Allegheny County Sportsmen's League
www.acslpa.org
412.221.3346

***********************
For information on becoming involved or your club becoming a member of
the ACSL please see the web address below:
http://www.acslpa.org

Below are questions from the flyer that you may want to ask yourself,
or provide to your friends, when considering whether or not to attend
this rally:

1. Are your Constitutional rights important to you?

2. Do you know that your concealed carry permit is NOT valid in ANY
Pennsylvania State or County Park? Under current PA law you could be
arrested, jailed, fined and imprisoned AND lose your rights to own guns
for the rest of your life.

3. Would YOU like to keep your God-given right to defend yourself?
Forget it, unless YOU get involved in making your elected officials
understand your rights as outlined in both our state & Federal
Constitutions. They must understand rights are NOT a privilege, Rights
cannot be bargained away by ANYONE. (They are God-given. What God has
given is NOT NEGOTIABLE.)

4. Do you think that you should give the state your personal Social
Security number for recreational licenses?

5. Do you know that you can be falsely accused in a Protection From
Abuse (PFA) case and your firearms automatically confiscated without
ANY evidence of abuse?

6. Do you know you CANNOT ride a snowmobile or ATV and have in your
possession a firearm EVEN if you have a Concealed Carry License?
(See-75 PA §7727. Additional limitations on operation.) This
prohibition includes Police Officers as well as the average citizen!

7. Do you think it's fair that archers have to give up their right to
self-defense while bow hunting (This includes law enforcement)? Under
Current PA you are NOT allowed to carry a concealed firearm while bow
hunting and there have been several recent cases of archery hunters
being attacked while hunting.

8. Do you believe that you have the absolute right to defend your
family or yourself if criminals attack you? Under Current PA you can
be tried civilly and criminally costing YOU thousands $$!

9. If you are a law-abiding citizen do you think the state police
should register your guns like the Nazi's did to their citizens? The
Pennsylvania state police has kept a data base on all hand gun buyers
for 90 years. Has this database solved any crimes? If not then why are
they keeping these records?

10. Do you feel that you have NO voice in how the government is run?

11. Do you feel that if you speak up you are fighting the system?

12. Do you feel that "you can't fight city hall" & that if you try you
won't (can't) win?

13. Do you think more restrictive guns laws on ordinary citizens will
make you safer?

14. IF you don't like the answers to these questions then YOU should
plan on attending this news conference so that YOU can directly relay
your concerns to elected state lawmakers.

15. If you think Gun Registration is a good thing, history will support
your views. Here's an example: WWII Germany...Adolph Hitler. His Gun
Control laws from 1930's were the blueprints for the gun control
legislation we are subject TO THIS DAY! The 1968 omnibus safe street
and crime prevention act is almost WORD FOR WORD the 1938 Nazi Gun
Control Act used to register all guns and later confiscate them from
the citizens.

16. ACSL has assisted in drafting legislation to correct the above
injustices and we now need YOUR help to pressure the lawmakers into
passing corrective legislation into law.

17. IF you want specific information on our legislative efforts please
go the ACSL web site or for other sporting information.
http://acslpa.org/

 

[Steve in PA]

I think they need to get their facts straight before they do anything;

1) There is no ban (state law) on carrying CCW in a state park. It is only a "regulation" on their part, you are not in violation of any law. No arrest, no jail, no fine, no imprisonment.

2) There is no ban on carrying while on an ATV as long as you have a CCW (ie, carrying concealed while in/on a motor vehicle). Police do not need a CCW, so I have no idea how this affects them. PAVC 75-7727 makes no mention of a CCW, which if you have one would make it ok, since an ATV/snowmobile would be considered a motor vehicle.

3) There is no ban on carrying for self defense while hunting, only the carrying of a semi-auto pistol.

 

[The Drew]

could you post more details of the rally, I live in central PA and If I can make it, I'd like to be there, but I'd drive myself. since harrisburg is only about 45 minutes away.

 

[alan]

The Drew:

In case I hadn't replied to your inquiry, re details not mentioned in the original message, I suggest that you contact Kim Stolfer via e-mail or telephone. He is a lot closer to this than I am.

Alan

 

[41 Redhawk]

3) There is no ban on carrying for self defense while hunting, only the carrying of a semi-auto pistol.

You can not carry while hunting with a muzzleloader and I would suspect while bow hunting as well.

 

[Steve in PA]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. Yes, there are certain seasons in which you can not carry a firearm, but there are other seasons in which you can.

When small game hunting and "regular" dear, doe and bear season you can carry a firearm (as long as it is not a semi-auto) with you. And the reason can be for hunting OR self-defense, doesn't matter.

Archery, spring gobbler (no single projectile ammo in your possession) and muzzleloader are seasons where you would be prohibitied from carrying. Plus, I've never heard of any archery hunters being attacked. I've belonged to a PA hunting board for many years and I've never heard mention of this.

The PGC will never concede to allowing a person to carry in the above mentioned seasons. Hunting has its own seperate rules and regs.

 

[p35bhp09]

Until recently you could not carry a gun of any kind, with a concealed permit or not, in oregon during archery season. Then that was overruled by the courts saying Oregon Fish and wildlife has no control over gun laws. So that one in your state definately has a chance. In my opinion anyway.

 

[johnnytang24]

1) There is no ban (state law) on carrying CCW in a state park. It is only a "regulation" on their part, you are not in violation of any law. No arrest, no jail, no fine, no imprisonment.

Steve in PA,

Can you please clarify this statement? I'm having a hard time understanding it's implications. Does this mean that I can CCW in a state park? Will I be ejected by the rangers? I would like to go camping soon, and I was wondering if I could bring a pistol.

Thanks.

 

[geekWithA.45]

My understanding of the state park thing is that it grows out of unresolved conflicts of statute, which have not been tested in court.

Apparently, the state park commission takes the position that if you are detected carrying in a state park with a permit, you will be asked to leave. If you do not leave, you will be charged with criminal trespass, which, of course, will create a permit problem in the future.

The practical upshot is that if you are made, you either have to leave, or prepare to be the test case.

Steve In PA...does that match your understanding of the situation?

 

[Beren]

Plus, I've never heard of any archery hunters being attacked. I've belonged to a PA hunting board for many years and I've never heard mention of this.

Steve,

I've gotta take an opposing view on this. Whether it's happened before or not is irrelevant to me. My right to carry a pistol for self-defense should not be mitigated by a hunting regulation.

Is it really that hard for a game warden to tell whether a deer was shot with a pistol v. a bow? How does the risk of unsportsmanlike taking of game overrule someone's state right to bear arms for self-defense?

 

[Steve in PA]

Yes, I agree that if you are found carrying you will be asked to leave. Fail to leave and you will be cited for trespassing. Same situation would occur in say a mall which says it does not allow the carrying of firearms.

As for hunting, again I'm willing to bet there will be no concessions when it comes to those seasons.

And as far as the ATV carrying issue. An ATV or snowmobile is considered a "motor vehicle" under the vehicle code and a person in possession of a CCW would be allowed to carry while riding them. A Sportsman Permit would not allow them to ride with the handgun loaded. I can arrest you for DUI in a car, ATV or snowmobile. They are all "vehicles" under Title 75.

§102. Definitions.

“Motor vehicle.” A vehicle which is self-propelled except an electric personal assistive mobility device or a vehicle which is propelled solely by human power or by electric power obtained from overhead trolley wires, but not operated upon rails.

§6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

(a) Offense defined.—
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

 

[alan]

The Drew:

Re your request for "details", I got the following from Kim Stolfer last night. I believe that it will likely answer your questions. If not, I suggest that you contact Kim yourself.

For Drew:



The news conference will begin at 9:00AM with speakers beginning at 9:30AM and will finish up at around 11:00AM. After the rally we will hold a Grassroots Lobbying seminar for all interested parties until about 2:00PM. Parking will be available locally or at the Farm Show Complex with a shuttle bus coming to pick them up at around 9:15AM. There are no allowances in the Capitol Building for Concealed Carry Firearms or the storage of lawfully carried ones.



Kim Stolfer

(412) 221-3346, Home Phone

(412) 257-1099, Home Fax

(412) 352-5018, Cell

 

[alan]

Steve in PA, 41 Redhawk, Johnnytang24, geekwithA.45,beren et al:

Re questions raised concerning the material I had originally posted, I had forwarded some of the above on to Kim Stolfer, for his consideration and response, I got the following from him last night. Looks to me like it could well answer questions posed. If it doesn't, I respectfully suggest that interested parties contact Kim.


To Whom It May Concern:



I have been forwarded the discussion related to points raised in our flyer for the March 14th Pro-Gun News Conference. As the person coordinating this event I want to respond to the criticisms and gaps in understanding.



“Steve in PA” wrote the following:

I think they need to get their facts straight before they do anything;
1) There is no ban (state law) on carrying CCW in a state park. It is only a "regulation" on their part, you are not in violation of any law. No arrest, no jail, no fine, no imprisonment.
2) There is no ban on carrying while on an ATV as long as you have a CCW (ie, carrying concealed while in/on a motor vehicle). Police do not need a CCW, so I have no idea how this affects them. PAVC 75-7727 makes no mention of a CCW, which if you have one would make it ok, since an ATV/snowmobile would be considered a motor vehicle.
3) There is no ban on carrying for self defense while hunting, only the carrying of a semi-auto pistol.




Steve (and ALL on this list)- I will answer each point as is identified above.

Point #1) State Parks: please see the message below that is sent out to individuals who contact the Bureau of State Parks;



Please allow me to respond to your inquiry in regards to carrying a firearm in Pennsylvania State Parks.



The Pennsylvania Uniform Crimes Code, Section 6106, does permit an individual to carry a firearm, provided that the individual in question has the proper firearm license. However, our Chief Counsel advises that when the safety of the general public is in question, such as in an airport, school, or a park, other public laws supersede the Uniform Crimes Code regarding the carrying of a firearm while in a state park.



Act 18 or 1995 provides the statutory authority for all actions, rules, and regulations developed and implemented by the Department. Section 303 (a), Paragraph (1) empowers the Department to "supervise, maintain, improve, regulate, police, and preserve all parks belonging to the Commonwealth.". This authority when combined with Title 17 of the Pennsylvania Code provides the legal authority for the Department to regulate the carrying and use of firearms in all state parks. Chapter 11, Section 11.10 states that "firearms and archery equipment may be uncased and ready for use by properly licensed hunters only in designated areas and seasons...open to hunting". When hunting is not in season, said "firearms and archery equipment shall be kept in the owners car, trailer, or camp proper".



This policy has and will continue to provide for the adequate protection of all park visitors. This policy reduces the possibility of accidental discharges as well as other related accidents that may occur when an individual is in possession of a firearm.



In closing, one is permitted to carry a properly registered / licensed handgun in an approved hunting area, during the hunting season within Pennsylvania's State Parks.



Thank you for you interest and concern for our state parks. If we may be of additional assistance in this matter, please contact me at 717-787-8800.



Sincerely,



Eugene V. Giza

Chief-Operations Section

Park Operations and Maintenance Division

Bureau of State Parks

P.O. Box 8551

Harrisburg, PA 17105-8551

EMAIL: [email protected]



Stolfer Response for #1: Despite the debate that I have been forwarded, regulations do have consequences and they exist in consolidated and in unconsolidated language in PA law. IF you are caught in a State Park with a Concealed Firearm you will be fined and your firearm (depending how close you are to an urban area you are) will be confiscated forcing you to hire a lawyer to go to court to get it back. In addition violating this section of law (Act 18 of 1995) will provide the leverage for an unfriendly Sheriff to pull your Concealed Carry License. How do I know these things? Because we have defended gun owners who have fallen into these situations. Unintentional violations are treated harshly in many of these situations and intent is not a determining factor.



Point #2) (There is no ban on carrying while on an ATV): The exact language of the relevant section of law is below:

75 PA §7727. Additional limitations on operation.

Statute text
Except as otherwise permitted under Title 34 (relating to game), no person shall:
(1) Operate or ride in any snowmobile or ATV with any bow and arrows or with any firearm in his possession unless it is unstrung or unloaded.
(2) Drive or pursue any game or wildlife with a snowmobile or an ATV.



Stolfer Response for #2: When reading legislation one must pay particular attention to the “exceptions” section. As you can see the “only” exceptions are related to activities under Title 34 (game law) and NO recognition of CCW licenses is listed therefore it is NOT legal. The point raised on “snowmobiles and ATV’s” being motor vehicles is not valid because this section of law specifically references Title 34 and “no” other section of law. This specificity of exception means that for the purposes of this particular section of law there are “no” other exceptions recognized. Our attorneys and two state attorneys have reviewed this language and all agree that the prohibition is real.

Steve’s follow up point in quoting two different sections of law is obscuring the real point here in that you can be prosecuted for violating 75 PA §7727 because there is no linkage to Title 18 §6106 and they are two different sections of law.



Point #3) There is no ban on carrying for self defense while hunting:

Stolfer Response for #3: This position is “absolutely” wrong. There is a ban on carrying any self defense firearm when hunting and this includes trapping. I not only have numerous files on hunters who have been prosecuted I also have the Game Commission stats that show that thousands of hunters have been cited, fined and prosecuted for this. In addition I have been in contact with the House Game Committee Executive Director who was told that there is no written policy supporting the carrying of a self defense firearm concealed while hunting. I know that “Steve” has conceded in follow up messages that there are seasons where hunters cannot carry a firearm and justifies this position by stating that he knows of no hunters who have been attacked. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE. I have dozens of cases of hunters and trappers being attacked by bears, coyotes, wild dogs, and even other people. But even more to the point, “why does the Game Commission dictate the exercise of a constitutional right”? There are no just reasons for this position by the Game Commission. In fact we are working right now with Rep. Ed Staback to introduce legislation that would do exactly what “Steve” says the PA Game Commission will never concede.



In closing I would just say that there are many differing opinions on law and its’ implementation but I can definitively say that watching the courts pick and choose laws and their use over the years has led us to work very diligently to refine, clarify and modify law so that enforcement is applied fairly and evenhandedly. Perhaps the single greatest point that is missed by too many gun owners and sportsmen and sportswomen is that the government and our representatives work for “us” and that they have as their highest responsibility to protect and defend the constitution. Article 1 Section 21 says “The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned”. I/we tend to agree!



Anyone interested in following up on these points is welcome to call or e-mail me.



Kim Stolfer

ACSL, Legislative Committee, Chairman

www.acslpa.org

FOAC, Chairman

www.foac-pac.org

PSA, Legislative Committee, Vice-Chairman

(412) 221-3346, Home Phone

(412) 257-1099, Home Fax

(412) 352-5018, Cell

 

[Steve in PA]

Oy, why do I do this.

1) Notice in their "opinion" they are only talking about firearms and archery equipment in a hunting sense....Chapter 11, Section 11.10 states that "firearms and archery equipment may be uncased and ready for use by properly licensed hunters only in designated areas and seasons...open to hunting". When hunting is not in season, said "firearms and archery equipment shall be kept in the owners car, trailer, or camp proper". It says nothing about carrying concealed.

This is quite interesting......"In closing, one is permitted to carry a properly registered / licensed handgun in an approved hunting area, during the hunting season within Pennsylvania's State Parks." But wait, how can this be legal if persons are claiming "thousands" of others are being, cited, arrested and prosecuted by the PGC????


2) An ATV or snowmobile is a VEHICLE as defined by the PA Vehicle Code. A CCW allows a person to carry a loaded handgun in a VEHICLE. You can't have it both ways. It can't be a vehicle one minute, then not a vehicle in another.

3) This is like talking to a brick wall. Show me proof where a hunter has been cited by the PGC for carrying a handgun (revolver, not semi-auto) for SELF-DEFENSE while hunting. A PA LTC (license to carry) allows the person to carry. If they were cited it is because they carried a semi-auto which is FORBIDDEN while hunting!!! Sure they tried to claim it was for self-defense, but they were in violation of the game code........NOT because they were carrying a handgun for self-defense.

I carry a S&W .357 mag when small game, deer or bear hunting or walking in the woods. I can use it to take game OR for self-defense purposes. You can carry a handgun (as long as it is NOT a semi-auto) when hunting or trapping or walking through the woods.

Your arguement is that you are trying to claim self-defense firearm equates to semi-auto. By the way, what is a "self-defense firearm"? The PA Crimes Code has no such definition. The rules and regs of hunting in PA says you can not carry a semi-auto while hunting. So carry a revolver. There is no written policy on this because its a non-issue. You can't carry a semi-auto while hunting. Why is this so hard to understand?