People who carry without a permit in strict states criminals?

[NavyLCDR]

People who carry against the laws of the state or Federal government are criminals. This country was founded by a whole group of criminals, BTW.

 

[bbuddtec]

You often here pro 2nd Amendment people say, "If you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns."

If I carry where it's not allowed by law, regardless of whether I intend to use my firearm for some nefarious purpose, how am I different from the outlaws?

...there is another meaning to that statement, as follows...

This describes the fact that a law can turn us into criminals, regardless of our lawfulness, and needs to be rejected outright. it is more than just gun rights, it's human rights.


PS, HAPPY NEW YEAR, ALL!!!

 

[floorit76]

Il .

 

[USAF_Vet]

Some people here have suggested I and others "vote with out feet" and leave? Somehow we are cowards who stay. Um, I own a business here, my family is here my life is here in New York, my father is buried her, and I would probably die here.

I shouldnt have to leave.

Then those who say to change things. It's not that simple. Esp. When the majority of fools here think that the govt is right to restrict us.

I think the ones who leave could be equally viewed as cowards. They fled from the challenge rather than sticking around to fight the fight, despite the probable outcome.

I don't have carry permit, but open carry is not outlawed. So until I can get a permit, which is a simple financial matter due to job loss, I open carry. Sure, it's a bit more of a hassle if i want to legally transport my hand gun to OC where I need to go. It's lame, but it's legal. If I had a moral obligation to ignore the law, I would, and i'd also be prepared for the worst case scenario.

There are plenty of laws on the books that I ignore, as do most people and even most cops. In Michigan, it's illegal to kill a dog using a decompression chamber (which is not something I'm wont to do, BTW). It is illegal to sell a car on Sunday. A woman isn’t allowed to cut her own hair without her husband’s permission. There is a 3 cent bounty for each starling and 10 cent bounty for each crow killed in any village, township, or city in the state (Repealed, 2006). Not all laws make sense when viewed through the scope of modern perspective. But most laws were not written in such context.

Personally, if I feel like buying a car on Sunday, I will. the law makes no sense, with no basis to be illegal other than keeping the Sabbath holy, and while it is entirely enforceable, it is not a law that will be enforced. My wife can get a hair cut whenever she pleases. Just because a law exists doesn't make it right. If buying a car on Sunday or my wife getting a haircut without my permission is illegal (and I can provide the codified law if anyone is truly interested), then those are pointless laws that should be broken.

Obviously there is a huge difference between getting a hair cut illegally and carrying a gun illegally, but if one is willing to ignore one silly law, why would they sit back and allow another silly law to strip them of their God given protected right to self defense?

Some will argue that the 2a does not allow for concealed carry. And that is something with which I agree. It says you can keep and bear, which is why I openly carry my weapons. If concealed carry is something to be regulated at the state level, I'm okay with that as long as I'm not completely stripped of my right to carry. I might catch some flak for this, but that's the way I feel.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

And if your wife did get fined or arrested for cutting her hair, as stupid of a law as it is "I thought the law was silly so I didn't feel I had to follow it" would not be enough of a reason to get her out of the punishment.

Breaking the law can come with consequences. Speeding can get you fined. Sitting in the front of the bus if you're not white could have gotten you jail time. Shoplifting can get you probation. Speaking treason against the King and usurping his authority to found a nation could have gotten you drawn and quartered.

Some of those laws and punishments are unjust and immoral. Some aren't. It shouldn't be hard to know which is which. But in each case, the person performing the act can face consequences. They know this. Deciding to perform the act is deciding to be ok with the possibility of getting caught and punished. Rosa Parks knew she would get arrested, and was ok with that because what she felt was right was more important. The Founding Fathers knew they would be executed if caught, but were ok with this because they felt it was worth the risk.

Carrying a weapon where you're not allowed may be just. But there may be consequences. You can't get one without the other.

 

[razorback2003]

I've known a lot of older people, many no longer alive, that never messed with getting a license to carry a handgun, even when they became available. They just carried anyway and the police at the time looked the other way and some encouraged it. Of course the state that this happened in Arkansas carrying a weapon was and still is a misdemeanor. Most folks are given a small fine and their handgun may be taken and you have to get a lawyer to get it back. I live in Tennessee now and have heard many folks have done the same thing here, especially a while back, and getting the same smile from police and no troubles. Worst people here still have to worry about is a misdemeanor.

Now in states like New York. That would be tough. That is a FELONY to be caught with a handgun without a NY license. Mass sounds the same as New York. California doesn't sound bad to get a license if you have a business and you can at least keep a handgun in your hotel room/business/home without any sort of special license to POSSESS. New York, California, Mass seem to be able to get a license if you know the right approach. Honestly that is what I'd do.

Now Illinois, that is a felony charge if you get caught carrying loaded on your person and there is no license available. Any felony is hard to get brought down to a misdemeanor and costs a lot of money.

Do I fault otherwise honest people who can't get a license in say Illinois because there are no licenses or Hawaii where hey again basically no licenses? I probably won't fault them but I would be uneasy to risk a felony charge myself.

 

[BamAlmighty]

Way back when I made a cross country road trip that took me around the entire continent I stashed a loaded firearm in my vehicle well knowing the risk of what might happen if I were caught in a firearm unfriendly locality.

It came down to being prepared for the unknown was well worth the risk and no unjust law was going to prevent me from being able to protect myself.

 

[1911Tuner]

Some will argue that the 2a does not allow for concealed carry.

Neither does 2A disallow it. It places no restrictions or qualifiers on keeping and bearing arms.

And, please...none of this nuclear device or AH-64 Apache strawman stuff. We all know that we're talking about portable smallarms...and mostly sidearms.

 

[Snowbandit]

As all gun laws are unconstitutional, the only criminals are the ones who passed the law. They will not be the one prosecuted however. Each of us needs to make our own choices and be prepared to accept the consequences that go along with those choices.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Neither does 2A disallow it. It places no restrictions or qualifiers on keeping and bearing arms.

And, please...none of this nuclear device or AH-64 Apache strawman stuff. We all know that we're talking about portable smallarms...and mostly sidearms.

Right, but the way this nation was set up, legally the states can place restrictions on Federal Laws making them a bit more strict in said states. They can't ever be made less strict than federal law, which still happens in the case of legalized marijuana. I know "shall not be infringed" does not mean "reasonable restrictions" but some of those reasonable restrictions I agree with. I don't want a violent felon to have the ability to legally purchase and carry a gun. They may choose to do so illegally, but that brings us around to the crux of this issue. They may choose to carry illegally, and they must be prepared to face the music when/ if caught.

Wasn't even going to bring nukes and attack helicopters into it. If I had the money, I'd get a military grade helicopter just for the fun of it.

And if your wife did get fined or arrested for cutting her hair, as stupid of a law as it is "I thought the law was silly so I didn't feel I had to follow it" would not be enough of a reason to get her out of the punishment.

But actually, there mat have been precedent set in this state that may go to prove otherwise. Some time ago a man was arrested/ charged for using profanity in front of women and children. The law was repealed in 2002, so I don't know if this occurred before or after the law was repealed. He beat it in court, preliminary hearing IIRC.

There are many laws on the books that are pointless, and the prosecuting attorney knows it, the cops and judges know it, and while it is illegal, odds are against it ever going to trial or, if a lesser crime or civil infraction, being punished with a fine. I doubt the DA wants to be known as 'that guy'.

 

[Art Eatman]

Lots of philosophizing, but either live with the law, work to change the law, or move.