Personal firearm sale delivery service

[HRnightmare]

I belong to a few buy/sell/trade firearm groups on Facebook and recently a guy that owns a legitimate delivery service and moving company has started to advertise that he will pick up a gun and deliver it to the buyer for a fee.

Now this is in FL, so no paperwork is required, nothing is illegal about buying and selling guns without documentation or registration, etc.

However, aside from the obvious risk of the gun going missing or stolen in delivery, etc.

Is there anything illegal about this?

I certainly would never give my firearm to a stranger to have them deliver it, obviously not knowing if the person on the other end is who they actually claimed to be.

 

[Sam1911]

Technically (federally) legal as long as it's within state lines. If you do not know or have reason to know that the buyer is a prohibited person, you don't actually have to have met them.

 

[joem1945]

I would have to know if he and the company were bonded and insured.

 

[lawson4]

Would the delivery service be viewed as in the business of selling guns? I realize he is just delivering, but couldn't he be viewed as selling the gun to the recipient?

Rick

 

[dogtown tom]

HRnightmare I belong to a few buy/sell/trade firearm groups on Facebook and recently a guy that owns a legitimate delivery service and moving company has started to advertise that he will pick up a gun and deliver it to the buyer for a fee.

Sounds like he's already registered with the federal DOT as a common carrier.

Is there anything illegal about this?

UPS and FedEx do it several times a day.

I certainly would never give my firearm to a stranger to have them deliver it, obviously not knowing if the person on the other end is who they actually claimed to be.

Nearly every carrier offers Adult Signature on delivery or Restricted Delivery (delivery only to a specific person) as an option.

lawson4 Would the delivery service be viewed as in the business of selling guns? I realize he is just delivering, but couldn't he be viewed as selling the gun to the recipient?

I think the Feds understand that UPS & FedEx aren't "selling" anything other than the service they provide.......this sounds no different.

 

[lawson4]

^^^^Good point. I retract my statement. I am just untrusting of ATF

Rick

 

[short barrel]

I wouldn't do it. I also am mistrusting of the ATF. My father was an agent for them, and no few times did he remark on their procedures. Some of the agents are more aggressive than others, and will try to make a case when the alleged offense is obviously not an offense.

Long after my dad's passing, I worked with another state officer who recovered a full auto AR. I had been tossed from a vehicle and found by a citizen. Records within ATF did not reveal the owner, but a particular ATF agent wanted it and he made several attempts to intimidate the officer who had possession of it. The trooper never relinquished it and the ATF agent backed off. It was kept as "recovered property."

That's off topic a bit. I certainly do not recommend questioning ATF regulations, but I would never ship or deliver a firearm without an in person meeting. No one and no agency can be fully trusted. Take no chances. Do it safely or don't do it is my stance.

 

[Art Eatman]

short barrel, you're way away from what's at issue here.

If this delivery guy is bonded and insured, the only difference between him and UPS/FedEx is the name of the service and the size of the operation.

 

[Jim K]

I am not sure of the definition and legal meaning of "common carrier" but I assume it means a service that will deliver anything legal from anyone to anyone, like UPS or FedEx. If his service meets whatever the standard is for a common carrier, I see no reason he cannot deliver a gun (or anything else legal) anywhere in the U.S. But he does need some licenses, I believe, to accept shipments of anything in interstate commerce. I expect he would willingly answer any questions about his legal status.

Jim

 

[Bezoar]

fed ex or ups will take a gun from a FFL and send it to another FFL or the company that made the gun. thats legal.

whats been proposed is this.

a person has a company thats supposedly a delivery company. and is saying "hey, if you want to sell a gun, give me 10 dolalrs and i will deliver it to that persons house or place of business"

thats quite different. its somewhat in the area of "so two joints in a single ziplock bag is personal use, but 2 joints in SEPERATE ziplock baggies is a felony conviction for delivery/sale of drugs"

 

[Frank Ettin]

fed ex or ups...

You're way off base.

1. FedEx and UPS are not the only common carrier. Pretty much anyone with the capital and infrastructure can go into the business of a being a common carrier as long as he complies with whatever state and federal regulations apply.
   
   
2. It is unlawful under federal law (18 USC 922(e)) for any person to deliver a gun to a common carrier for interstate shipment to anyone other than an FFL. But that federal statute does not apply, under its explicit terms, to intrastate shipment.
   
   
3. In fact ATF has specifically said in its FAQs:

   Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
   
   

   A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State....​

   
   
4. So the issue will be state laws regarding transfer of firearms.
   
   
   • If under state law formalities are required for the private transfer of firearms, the arrangement described by the OP will not be legal under state law.
     
     
   • If under state law no formalities are required for the private transfer of firearms, the arrangement described by the OP will be legal under state law, as long as the transfer is from one resident of the State to another resident of the State.

 

[Jim Watson]

As I understand it, it is legal for you to ship a gun by common carrier intrastate to anybody who can legally own it. In the absence of state restrictions of course.

The problem is, the big name common carriers won't do it.

This guy might have a good racket.

 

[pdsmith505]

As I understand it, it is legal for you to ship a gun by common carrier intrastate to anybody who can legally own it. In the absence of state restrictions of course.

The problem is, the big name common carriers won't do it.

This guy might have a good racket.

And that, my friends, is capitalism.

 

[Red Wind]

It sounds like an excellent idea to me.

 

[Johnny_B_Goode]

If I was running a delivery business and went through the legal hoops to become a common carrier I would not deliver/pick up a gun to anyone's home unless it was coming from/going to a factory or gunsmith for repair. Even though it would be legal fedex or UPS will not pick up a gun from my residence and deliver it to another residence in state. I am sure there is a reason these two carriers do not want to get involved with legal transactions.