Personal moral dilemma on hunting...need help

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I recommend you start small, rabbit, squirrel and such. hunt for them, skin & clean them, and prepare them according to a proven reciepe.

if thats not a problem, then try deer hunting. if that doesnt work for you and you really liked the small game, just hunt the small stuff. theres less emotional involvement for some in hunting the smaller game than a big majesticdeer or elk.

it really makes me feel very good about myself when i go out into the forest, plains or mountains , especially with a handgun for getting close up, and kill my own game and eat it. gives me a feeling of liberty, independance, and self reliance. i like to know that i can, if ever needed, walk into the wilderness, make a kill and feed myself and my family in case the Fertilizer hits the fan.

i do deer hunt now and then, but its really a side for me, most all my regular hunting is small game and varmint hunting with my .22's, and thats usually enough to give me that good feeling.

think about it. good luck, let us know what happens. -Eric
 
Hunting morals

I hunt behind my lakehouse all year- with two deercams. I know every one of the local deer, even who is related to who. Today I was face-to-face with a little buck that last year fell asleep in front of both deercams and spent the whole season sparring with a little six point who has since disappeared. He's a very nice eight point this year. Nice square rack. Tall tines. Wish I could see his buddy. I ran into him while pulling cam cards. I just held still and let him pass. He crossed downwind and gave me a little snort and a jump. I have one of his little squirrel chewed shed antlers in a bowl on the living room coffee table.
Two big bucks in the area, one who had his left antler torn off at the socket in mid December. His brother was shot from the road last year during the rut on about November 9, 2005 by a person in a truck. His left socket was damaged and grew a very atypical antler this year. His undamaged side is a six point that would score out 140+ if he had both. I hope he breeds every doe in the creekbottom. I'm not going to shoot him, or the kid, or the other big buck who probably will be a monster if he makes it to next year. We have had two of the driest summers of my lifetime so the horns aren't as good as they could have been.
There are also twins who lost their mom and a sibling before they were out of spots or weaned. (I think we had a big cat come through with kits.) They are very poor and it will take years for them to catch up, if they ever do. They show up in the yard all the time. I worry about them. It's hard without your mom and that milk.
I'll try rattling up the big bucks next week just to see them.
Probably kill six or seven does at a friends ranch. He has 30 doe tags to shoot. I shot one with a Garand last weekend. I skin and quarter them and give them away. I have people lined up. I'll hunt with several different military arms just for the heck of it. Today I zeroed my Ruger #1/scoped, a 1903A3, a K98, and an Argentine 1909 carbine. Ready to go.
Men have hunted deer behind my lakehouse and up at the ranch at Clarksville for 18,000 years. The lakehouse has several Pre-colombian sites along the bluff near it. They have pottery and arrow points in them. I'm just following an old family tradition.
It's gory. You kill something about your own size which make me reflect on my OWN mortality. It's direct. Kill it and eat it. No more restaurant food produced by strangers far away. Field dress a deer and you cut apart things that you wouldn't want cut apart on yourself. You get blood on your hands. You pour another beings guts and blood on the ground. Serious stuff. I think it makes you a better, more moral, more reflective human. And then there is the pure hunting skills. Sit. Watch. Listen. Imagine. Be still but alert, like meditation. Read sign. Know the landscape. Know your weapon and how to use it morally. You ought to know your ecosystem and the folks you inhabit it with. You have to accept failure and success. You have to be able to kill. It's a complex skill set, but unlike most modern skill sets, like being able to figure your income tax or get your car repaired or program your cell phone, its a very clean and direct skill set. I think it resonates in human DNA in ways most modern tasks DON'T.
Plus there you are with a rifle. Only free men are armed and this is a world that increasingly devalues free men, but there you are. If you have to fight, ever, you will have picked a spot to make a stand, waited, watched, shot and killed before.
If you are going to be a complete human being, I think it helps to hunt.
 
It's gory. You kill something about your own size which make me reflect on my OWN mortality. It's direct. Kill it and eat it. No more restaurant food produced by strangers far away. Field dress a deer and you cut apart things that you wouldn't want cut apart on yourself. You get blood on your hands. You pour another beings guts and blood on the ground. Serious stuff. I think it makes you a better, more moral, more reflective human. And then there is the pure hunting skills. Sit. Watch. Listen. Imagine. Be still but alert, like meditation. Read sign. Know the landscape. Know your weapon and how to use it morally. You ought to know your ecosystem and the folks you inhabit it with. You have to accept failure and success. You have to be able to kill. It's a complex skill set, but unlike most modern skill sets, like being able to figure your income tax or get your car repaired or program your cell phone, its a very clean and direct skill set. I think it resonates in human DNA in ways most modern tasks DON'T.
Plus there you are with a rifle. Only free men are armed and this is a world that increasingly devalues free men, but there you are. If you have to fight, ever, you will have picked a spot to make a stand, waited, watched, shot and killed before.
If you are going to be a complete human being, I think it helps to hunt.
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Wow, that was very well put.
 
What I'm about to post may or may not be for you....before man was anything else, he was a hunter. A carnivore with the ability to outwit his prey for survival.

No one here was born a hunter....it's a an acquired skill passed from generation to generation. No one here was born with the ability to field dress an animal, cut up meat, and experience the outdoors. All those skills were learned by everyone here. Sadly in our present day society man has found alternative methods to supply his food needs, many will never experience their ancestors skills.

You can either experience the skills your ancestors found necessary for survival or read about it. I believe people have a better perspective on life, the outdoors, and learn more about themselves by experienceing the hunt....

My oldest son was stationed in Afghanistan for nearly 15 months....he encountered several intense combat situations that could have ended in tragedgy. After returning home he thanked me for all the lessons learned through hunting. He told me that he had an edge over many of his fellow soldiers by useing his hunting skills....and that those experiences had saved his life on more than one occassion. Up to that point I had always considered hunting as recreation.....it's only now that I realize it was so much more.
 
He told me that he had an edge over many of his fellow soldiers by useing his hunting skills....and that those experiences had saved his life on more than one occassion. Up to that point I had always considered hunting as recreation.....it's only now that I realize it was so much more.
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Rembrandt, Wow. Thank you for that.
original poster, too bad your buddy didn't cook up some nice cuts for you so you could get an idea what venison is supposed to taste like, before he dropped a whole shoulder on your table. I'm sure he thought he was being generous, but that could be a little overwhelming if you're not used to it.
and for future reference:
Trash bags are for TRASH, NOT MEAT.
They are not clean, sanitary, or suitable for meat or any other food you intend to eat. They contain lots of nasty residues of stuff like pthalenes, releasing agents, perfumes, insecticides, etc.
 
Here is a link to an organization that my archery club supports; albeit in a small way, financially.

http://www.fhfh.org/cgi-bin/index.asp

I agree with those who said that presentation is important in making something palatable. A wrapped, and properly packaged piece of venison is much more likely to get eaten by someone new to eating game meat. Venison, properly prepared, is excellent food!

Good luck, and enjoy the comraderie of the hunt. :)
 
knuckles

Every hunting camp needs and loves a good cook. Go. Enjoy. If you don't feel like killing a deer this year, you will surely be welcome as the cook. I was raised be urbanites and did the progressive route. First small game, then deer processed by someone else, and now I butcher my own. Just do what you are comfortable with, your buddies should understand.
 
Call local processors that handle wildgame they should know who to give the meat to,homeless shelters food banks ect. most processors will processes for free or very little for the needy,also most game departments donate confiscated
game so give them a call
 
Hunting Morals

Good advice from many already here, I'll try not to repeat.

Here's a point I haven't seen yet, or may have overlooked, in other posts: like it or not, admit it or not, we are merely one part of the food chain; hunting gives us a more direct link to our place in the food chain, than anything else I know. It can also give us a link to our ancestors, and the way of life that was common for them.

Here's another thing to remember, if you are a meat eater: in almost every case, an animal killed in the wild dies more humanely than cattle killed at a slaughterhouse. Once the first few cattle are killed, the other cattle can smell the blood and see the fear in the other cattle, and that only escalates. In the wild, an animal usually dies fairly quickly, and without the smell of blood and fear that cattle experience.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

Michael
 
I hunt and I take my deer to a butcher to do a nice neat job. I literally drop the deer off on my way home from the field. My wife never even sees the deer. I don't have to worry about whether or not its cold enough to let it hang in the garage etc. I take pictures . Hope I'm lucky enough to get one this year. I only want one no matter how many I might be technically be allowed.

I get most of the deer ground up into hamburger (with pork fat added by the butcher). This is one of the advantages of using a regular butcher as they have fat that they can blend with the venison.

After I get the meat back, sometimes I donate part of the meat frozen to a shelter. Figure I shot the deer, it is my responsibility. I give away about 2/3 of the meat eventually.
 
"The camping out, hanging out with my close buddies, sitting around the campfire at night, the hours of solitude in nature, reflecting or just thinking about nothing and anything else I have missed"

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT CAMPING. LEAVE THE GUN HOME AND BE THE COOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I think you have to make the decision on your own. If killing a animal is not for you then take a camera to camp and capture your memories that way. Not everyone is a hunter.
Go with what you feel, later you may change in what you think.
 
I consume what I kill, got my first deer this week. Personally did not have a mental block myself. If you have reservations about it I suggest you still do it, if you dont like it or its not for you, you will definetly know after the first time.
 
I don't want to steal my husband's thunder on his hunt today, but I'll share a little bit, for an after-the-fact point of view.

We went out at 5:30 this morning, in the dead dark. Sunrise was 6:30. By about 8:45, I heard the CRACK of a rifle from where I knew DH was. Buzzed him on our walkie-talkies.

"Was that you?"

"Yes. Don't scare the deer away". (I had hit the call button, which makes a ring-ring sound. Oops. :eek: )

He buzzed me twenty or thirty minutes later. "Come help me track it."

That is our deal. When one of us gets a shot, the other drops their hunt and comes to help track. I looked RIGHT PAST the deer, which had slid down a ravine, but we eventually (took about an hour) found it, he dragged it up the slope of the ravine, and we gutted it.

His bullet took out both lungs. That deer had just enough energy that the oxygen he had in his blood provided him at the time he was shot, and then he was done. He didn't suffer. He will feed us, and we will share the venison with our priest and his family.

DH is very proud of his kill, and he should be. It takes more skill than you can know, until you've done this, to hunt a wild animal (remember, you're in HIS neighborhood and he usually knows you are there). It takes skill and patience to track and find the animal. It takes skill and knowledge to gut the animal without damaging the meat (you do NOT want to rupture the guts!) It takes physical strength and stamina to hunt, to carry or drag a deer out maybe quite some distance.

IMO, it is an extraordinary experience. Yes, there's blood. Yes, you have to dig in and get those insides out without opening up the wrong thing. It is an extremely rewarding thing to do. and as DH says, there is something primal about going out into the wild, with a firearm, and "putting meat on the table" for your family.

If you really decide you don't like venison, I bet your friends and family will take it; or you can certainly give it away to the poor. There are also organizations that will process the meat and send it to our soldiers in Iraq! If you don't want the venison, check out one of those options.

My advice, FWIW, is to give it a try.

Springmom
 
Please give the hunt a try but do it on your own terms. I don't know your age or background but get the feel that some of the things surrounding the hunting experiance are unfamiliar to you. I hope your hunting buddys will be respectfull of this unfamiliarity and help you through what can be called a life changing event.If you have grown to maturity and not experianced this it is probubly going to be even more profound but also rewarding.Every hunter with a soul looks at his kill with some remorse but also can see that the circle must continue and by joining in the process I feel we have a better understanding and satisfaction than those who feed only at the meat counter or obstain from flesh entirely.This year I have gutted 3 bulls and 2 bucks 1mine poorly hitand in the 30 years that I have been field dressing game have become desensitized to that process but some may never.My children still don't do it.We process our own and always have and after a day of butchering I rarely want to sit down to a nice rare roast but after a day or two I'm back to being a carnivore again. As far as eating every thing I shoot I'll have to pass on that. I can't see me eating coyote or flea infested prairie dogs or rock squirrels.Best luck if you go and if you choose to donate the meat as has been suggested here learn the protocall and the contacts prior to the hunt so that the process goes smoothly and lawfully.
 
Some real good advice..

Thats what makes this forum so great! Scads of great advice, philosophy and reality blended with experience and insight. I don't presume to share other wisdom than has already been written, but I will offer something else. Next year, come hunt (or help) with me. We can plan a public land hunt in Illinois or Michigan and you can experience the traditional midwest deer hunt. I could use the help as I have learned that most of the work takes place after the trigger is pulled. I try to hunt where no one else is and that requires walking in deep where vehicles aren't allowed. This then requires that the recepient of my attentions be dragged, carried or cajoled out said distance. (As someone said "The best place to shoot a deer is next to your truck") You could observe and/or participate as you wish. If you invest in a tag (license) you can take first or not, your call. If you feel squeemish at cleaning the kill you can sit it out. After the gutting the deer can be wrapped in a game bag and little or no gore is visible. I butcher my kills and if you would like to experience that we could oblige. I have taught my son and my nephew to hunt and both were reticent to some extent. My son never got past killing and eating squirrels, my nephew waited until 36 to express any interest, he had great beginners luck and scored a fork horn at 9am opening morning. He has stated that it was one of the great insightful emotional experiences of his life. i know it is that way for me, That's why I keep on....
 
This an excellent topic, my first deer hunting experience wasn't a good one. It was the first time my buddy and I had gone deer hunting and he got one. We were inexperienced at field-dressing and made a mess of it. The blood and smell made me feel sick.

Fast-forward 20 years and I'm going to give it a second try. If I'm blessed and bag a deer, I hope to do better come the field dressing part, which I want to do myself. I'm fortunate enough to be going with an experienced hunter and am counting on him to provide guidance once the processing starts. The prospect of venison in the freezer has me very excited.

regards,

Luis Leon
 
What I'm about to post may or may not be for you....before man was anything else, he was a hunter. A carnivore with the ability to outwit his prey for survival.
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Um, no. Based on comparison with other primates including the great apes, plus comparison with the human paleontological record, before being anything else, man was predominately a gatherer of plant foods, supplemented by some scavenging and rare hunting. Low, bunodont teeth are indicative of an omnivorous diet.

Before mankind became hunters, mankind was the hunted.
 
I like hunting, but I am not keen on the killing angle, I bring a camera and get to go out any time of year.
 
I like to hunt, my favorite is jack rabbit. Yeah people are all looking at my post wierd. The thing is I haven't been deer hunting yet. Deer season is during fall quarter in college and I would want to devote more time to it. I do enjoy being outdoors, and hunting is a way to get out to nature. Just remember what others have said, only take a shot when you're ready. Letting an animal go because you won't shoot it or the shot is bad is nobler than shooting before you're ready.

I would have never gone hunting, being raised by city people, the whole meat comes in a plastic sealed thingy is how I grew up.

When I was living in Ecuador I found the plastic wrapped chickens didn't taste as good as the homegrown type. And they cost twice as much. The ones from the market (whole, dead) were cheap, I was okay with cleaning/gutting them and after seeing others kill chickens I found that buying the live ones was even cheaper and killing them was something I could stomach. Killing the first one was difficult, a little more involved than pulling a trigger. I didn't enjoy it, but I was poor and that saved me two dollars over the plastic bag chickens. I also developed a taste for rabbit, and that's hard to find in the store , especially cheap, so I started to hunt them.
 
The thrill of the hunt is in the chase - not the kill.

If you don't want to hunt, don't hunt. If you want to hunt but not kill, use a camera (like Col. C. H. Stockley sometimes did). If you want to hunt, kill but not eat - just hunt, kill, and give the meat to someone else.

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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
Here is a link to an infromation site run by the NRA that list all of the "Hunters For The Hungry" type organazaions throughout the country. I whole heartedly recommend that everyone that has surplus game meat donate through these organazations. Besides providing food for those less fortunate than us, these activities also serve to show hunters in a favorible light to the general public, and this is something we need desperately.

Most folks that are not hunters don't understand that hunting is a vital wildlife management tool. They simply think that hunters are bloodthirsty killers out exerting their machismo and shooting up the woods. Unfortunately the criminals that call themselves hunters give us all a bad name. When was the last time you read a newspaper article about how a species of game was saved by hunters' efforts and money? I can't recall one time. Now when was the last time you saw something on someone being arested for poaching or some such?

So, every time a soccer mom is volunteering her time in a soup kitchen or some such and they find out that the protien rich low fat meat they are serving was donated by hunters, it serves to show the good side. Hopefully that word and understanding will spread and help us to overcome years of bad press. OK. I'll get off my soapbox now. See y'all in the woods sometime!
 
There's some organization like "hunters for the hungry" or something. Ted Nugent hawks them sometimes on his show. I would NEVER EVER give hard earned venison away that I need and my family would kick me out if I did. ROFL Been eatin' game my whole life.

Now, there's nothing nastier to kill and clean than a danged chicken...:barf: Yet, folks eat those nasty critters and call 'em good. I eat 'em, too, but buy the stuff at the store. I haven't kept chickens in a while, now, and when I did it was laying hens for the eggs. I'd kill one now and then, but I hated the chore of cleaning it. I'll take a mess of ducks or a a couple of deer any day over a chicken for cleaning.

But, meat's meat and venison is lean and healthy. Mmmm, backstrap! We chicken fry 'em with gravy. Daughter loves venison chilli too. I'm sure if you kill one, you won't have a problem givin' it away. I'd take the whole animal off your hands and do all the cleaning and butchering. :D
 
I think MDhunter nailed it...animals are dying anyway, just to feed you. Cows take a .22 to the head after being herded around for days in a high stress environnment. Save a cow, kill an elk.

There is a purity to killing your own meat. I feel like as a meat eater, I'm morally bound to do it. And this is coming from someone who was a vegetarian for 10 years, and opposed to eating meat, mainly for health reasons. But killing an elk or deer, or whatever, is a way of harvesting organically grown, high quality, low fat meat.

There is also an extreme sense of satisfaction that I am providing for my family.

I felt sorry for the elk I killed this year, but hugged them (after I was SURE they had expired) and thanked them for their sacrifice, and for providing meat for my wife and kids. Honor your kills, respect their beauty and grace in the wild, and the extreme challenge they provide.

Tom
 
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