PGP meets Sarah Brady! And crashes the Anti-Gunner party!

[Helmetcase]

Well, that was interesting. Norton provided a link to a press conference the Brady's gave in support of a pro-AWB politician here in MD, and I was there to crash the party.

Enjoy.

 

[orangelo]

Well that'll teach em. I expect them to drop Feinstein, Boxer, Kennedy, Kerry, Schumer, Lautenberg, Obama, McCarthy, Leahy, Conyers, and Klinton from shaping Democrat policy right away!



Maybe the ones I listed above will see the errors of their ways and write me a reparations check for all the money they've screwed me out of with their gun bans.

 

[K-Romulus]

holy cow! You da man!

 

[Helmetcase]

Well that'll teach em. I expect them to drop Feinstein, Boxer, Kennedy, Kerry, Schumer, Lautenberg, Obama, McCarthy, Leahy, Conyers, and Klinton from shaping Democrat policy right away!

Yeah, cause that was the point of going down there and confronting her.

If it's lost on you that the only people in the room asking questions or bothering to hear her speak were people fighting the AWB, I think you're missing the point bigtime. It's not about your laundry list of politicians, it's about confronting them in a rational manner. And being involved rather than being a keyboard warrior. Mmmmmkay?

 

[pax]

Helmetcase ~

Good article, and good for you.

I think you should post the entire article here, and bold the section which talks about THR. Should be fun to watch the resultant fireworks.

pax

 

[Helmetcase]

What, you mean the part where the Brady's readily admit that they think the gun rights movement segregating itself into a right-wing only club is the best thing they can hope for? That it makes their day when the gun rights community plays into that stereotype?

Sure, no problem.

Peter Hamm agreed with me that the worst thing the gun rights movement can do is allow the stereotype that gun owners and gun rights activists are exclusively rural redneck types with beards and beer bellies chasing deer around the woods with AK47s. You know and I know that’s a silly stereotype, but unfortunately it exists, and he made no bones about the fact that the perpetuation of that stereotype only helps their cause. Newsflash for those High Road, FiringLine, etc. type gun rights communities—if you doubt me when I say the worst thing the gun rights community can do is continue to divide ourselves, bicker, infight, and discriminate against the non-Republican members of the movement, you heard it here straight from the Brady Campaign horse’s mouth. The fact of the matter is simple—they agree that nothing works against the gun rights movement more, and helps them do their job better, than the continuation of the idea that gun rights is exclusively a right wing philosophical domain. The more you disagree with me on this front, the more you’re helping the Brady Campaign. It’s that simple. They’re hoping against hope that the pro-gun progressive movement doesn’t grow. They’d rather have the Republican gun rights folks attacking me than Sarah Brady; I know this because they told me as much. Disagree at your own peril.

Save me the "but the Democrats and Pelosi and Boxer and Feinstein and Kerry really suck!" diatribes. I know, we get it already. Working on changing it, and it won't happen overnight. If the people lead, the leaders will follow. But the Bradyites would love nothing more than for the gun rights community to cement itself as a rightwing only boys club.

 

[TX1911fan]

Nice job Helmet. I have to ask you though about this part of your article:

Newsflash for those High Road, FiringLine, etc. type gun rights communities—if you doubt me when I say the worst thing the gun rights community can do is continue to divide ourselves, bicker, infight, and discriminate against the non-Republican members of the movement, you heard it here straight from the Brady Campaign horse’s mouth.

While many of us on THR certainly do not trust Democrats, given their penchance for gun grabbing, I have never seen anything close to discrimination against non-rednecks or non-Republicans on this board, or any other gun board for that matter. In fact, I think you are treated much better on this board than I would be treated on Democratic Underground, Daily Kos or any number of other "progressive" boards. Are you saying that expressing our distaste with "progressive" politcians is somehow discrimination? You're not trying to take away our First Amendment rights to free expression, are you? The Brady Campaign wants that stereotype, and nothing we do here will change that. I for one am certainly not going to soften my views towards politicians who would deny my 2A rights, just so Sarah Brady will like me. And believe me, I am anything but a redneck. I even grew up as a "progressive" Canadian, of all things!

 

[Justin]

Outstanding.

 

[Helmetcase]

Eh, of course not TX. I'm just saying we've little to gain from letting them get away with perpetuating that stereotype, that gun owners are exclusively rightwingers and so forth. I was merely commenting on the fact that when I pointed out that dividing ourselves and bickering amongst ourselves over non-gun related stuff only hurts our cause, many folks disagreed here. Well, the Brady's are certainly hoping we continue to alienate non-right wing gun rights folks, believe me. They admitted as much right to my face. Instead, we should be making a big show of just how inclusive we are, and make no bones about the fact that gun ownership and the RKBA cuts across the aisle.

 

[hso]

TX1911fan,

You're right and you're wrong at the same time. THR as a site would never descriminate against non-right wing folks, but there is a large vocal group of haters here who mindlessly attack anyone that isn't right of McCarthy.

Helmetcase,

Good for you! The folks that don't want to be bothered to get up off the couch to do something, but will take the time to snipe at you do more harm for our cause than good.

 

[TX1911fan]

I don't really think the Brady Campaign developed that stereotype by reading this board. Like many "progressives" they think that anyone who holds different views must be "neanderthal" or somehow stupid. President Bush has to be stupid, right, because he has a southern accent and stumbles in his sentences. Anyone who wants guns must be stupid because civilized people, those who have evolved, know that guns are dangerous. Progressives think this because of their own worldview, not because Republicans on this board refuse to accept that Democrats, despite what they say, will ever fight hard to protect our 2A rights. Heck, many Republicans won't fight for them.

Helmet, what I'd like to see, then, is how should we act on THR to make Sarah Brady like us. If we are doing it wrong, then tell us how to do it right.

 

[Phetro]

Save me the "but the Democrats and Pelosi and Boxer and Feinstein and Kerry really suck!" diatribes. I know, we get it already. Working on changing it, and it won't happen overnight. If the people lead, the leaders will follow. But the Bradyites would love nothing more than for the gun rights community to cement itself as a rightwing only boys club.

Okay, great. Come back with some results. Until the politicians reflect what you claim many of your fellow leftists do, it's all smoke and mirrors to me and everyone else who truly supports the RKBA--obviously that right and the "democratic" party don't mix. Right now it's one or the other--when you vote, you don't get both.

 

[Helmetcase]

What are you saying, that I don't truly support the RKBA?

What did you do for the RKBA today? I know what I did, and I'm sharing it with you. Don't denigrate what I did because I didn't singlehandedly get John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi to change their minds. The only thing that'll do that is continued growth of the RKBA mentality in their constituency, and nothing prevents that more effectively than keyboard warriors working to make the RKBA the sole province of the far right.

 

[TX1911fan]

I am not denigrating you for your efforts. I truly appreciate them, and wish that more, on both sides, would work to erase stereotypes. I have yet to read on this board anyone saying to you, "get off this board unless you are a Republican." That doesn't happen.

However, I am denigrating your placing blame for the stereotype on those of us on THR. That's like blaming Hispanics for the stereotype that they are lazy. It's not our fault that "progressives" want to believe that everyone who cares about RKBA is a hick. Its THEIRS, so you pontificating that its our fault actually does more harm than good. Now Sarah Brady can go to your blog and say "see, even a pro-gun guy says that the RKBA crowd is a right wing boys club only." You are perpetuating the stereotype by telling the victims of the stereotype to fix it. I think that is because you harbor the same stereotype. Your comments on this board, and your blog, lead me to believe that you think MOST of us ARE right wing hicks (not that there is anything wrong with being a right wing hick, some of my best friends are). The thing is, we are not embarassed by it. We don't think there is a need to be different just so Sarah Brady won't make fun of us. Her using the stereotype only alienates all of us, and hopefully alienates you and others like you. Instead of castigating US, you should be castigating HER and telling her to stop it because she is losing the support of people like you.

As far as what I have done for RKBA, and to try and change the stereotype, in the last several months I have taken at least 6 women, and 5 children shooting. Two of the women were very anti, but came away from the experience with much more positive views.

I'd like to do more, perhaps as much as you do, but I lack the time. Maybe someday.

 

[tcgeol]

Nice job! It might be the only thing we agree on, but at least we can work together on RKBA.

 

[Helmetcase]

I disagree TX. When we're hostile to non-right wing RKBA types, and fill up message boards with "you're with us or against us" vitriol that makes it clear that many in the RKBA community don't welcome people like me, we're living up to that stereotype.

Given the threads we've had in the last few days, I just don't see how you can argue that there's not a definite number of folks here who frankly don't welcome people like me, and do believe that RKBA = right wing. I'm a little insulted you think it's ME perpetuating that stereotype, given all that I've given in the last two years for the RKBA movement. What, I'm supposed to pretend that we don't occasionally play into it? That there's not a lot of blind liberal bashing here? That many THR members don't think you can support the RKBA and not be a Republican? I refuse to pretend that I don't see that, don't experience it, and that it's not there. It is.

If we let that carry on, the Bradys are grateful.

 

[TX1911fan]

So if someone disagrees with you, that means you are not welcome? My disagreements with you are the same disagreements 1/2 of this country has with the other 1/2. You seem to think that just because you are a "progressive" who believes in RKBA that we just jump over to your enlightened side on all the other issues. You are the one who called President Bush' position on embryonic stem cell research, which I support and agree with, "idiotic" and "neanderthal."

Welcoming you and those who hold non-RKBA views like yours does not mean we have to agree with you all of the time. On the issue of RKBA, it is that you are with us or against us. On the other issues, we can debate. That's what makes this country great. The fact that you disagree with me on practically everything I write does not convey to me that you think I should leave this board, or that I don't believe in RKBA. As another poster here said, we at least can agree on one thing.

I would expect that if I say something here that people disagree with, they will call me on it. I expect to get that on this thread, as I am sure there are people who disagree with what I have said. That doesn't mean they don't want me here, it just means they don't agree.

 

[Rugerlvr]

You seem to think that just because you are a "progressive" who believes in RKBA that we just jump over to your enlightened side on all the other issues.

I don't think he's saying that. I think he's saying that you and those on your side of the political aisle should stop lumping everyone on our side of the aisle in with the gun-grabbers, and dismissing us, and our input.

 

[Helmetcase]

So if someone disagrees with you, that means you are not welcome?

That's not what I'm talking about, and you know it. I'm talking about people who've refered to my efforts as pointless because I haven't had John Kerry and Hillary Clinton swept out of office overnight. I'm talking about people who've suggested I'm a Brady plant. I'm talking about people who've compared me to themselves and said they're someone who "truly" supports the RKBA, as though I don't. I'm talking about people who argue ad nauseum that people like me are so rare as to be discounted.

I could care less if you agree with me on non-RKBA issues, really. What I'm saying is that I've found that often doesn't go both ways--not with you personally, just in general. I've shared PMs with many non-rightwing folk here who agree that they feel that way in general as well.

 

[TX1911fan]

Ruger, good point. I can see that. I guess that would go the other way too. To make my point about the stereotype then, I guess I should say to those on the left that it is their fault that I have that stereotype, and that they should do something to fix it.

Let me clarify one thing. I am grateful that there are many people on the left who support RKBA. I will take any support I can get, and I certainly don't want to give the opinion that I don't want Rugerlvr, Helmetcase or any other person on the other side of the aisle to participate in the debate and to represent RKBA in the best light possible. However, if that means I can't disagree when you bring other politics into it, or that I can point out flaws in arguments or statements, then that's a different answer.

Helmet, I'm sorry that that kind of stuff happens, it shouldn't. Anyone who would dismiss the efforts of any person to further the cause is not thinking straight.

 

[pax]

<observation>

You know, there are an awful lot of people on THR who use language rather loosely -- using "liberal" as a synonym for "gun grabber," for example.

</observation>

pax

 

[Helmetcase]

And I don't doubt for a second that more often than not you can get away with it, as it's been a good predictor in years past. But some of us are trying to change that. It won't happen overnight. The Republicans have been trying to beat Kennedy, Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstein, Schumer, et al for years, what makes you think I can with just a wave of my hand? That's silly.

But we can encourage other folks who are on the fence that siding with us and not the gun grabbers is a good idea. We certainly won't have much luck if the RKBA community is a hostile place for anyone but the far right.

 

[TX1911fan]

Helmet, another thing we can agree on. Let me also postulate something to you. Those of us on the right have been attacked by the left for years, so you also have to give us time to learn that not all "liberals" are gun grabbers. Forgive us for not trusting our "enemy" right off the bat. Hopefully through your efforts, we'll be able to come to a common understanding, at least on this issue.

 

[BrennanKG]

helmetcase,


Thanks for attending and speaking up.
Thanks for sharing the experience.


B.

 

[beerslurpy]

It will take years to turn it around the Dems, but I think that deserted Brady Bunch press conferences in Maryland are an encouraging start.

Someone let me know when the national level ACLU drops the collective right interpretation of the 2nd.