guyfromohio
Member
1kperday...
For some of us, the wild pheasant is all but extinct. These preserves are the only option.
For some of us, the wild pheasant is all but extinct. These preserves are the only option.
Pheasant hunt
- Thread starter USAF_Vet
- Start date
- Status
1KPerDay
Member
I'm hip... I'm not judging or complaining. I just don't think you need heavy artillery for farmed birds, is all. 
guyfromohio
Member
Agreed. 7.5 in IC does the trick. Especially when the guide has to pick up the bird and throw it..... I kid, I kid....or do I?
1KPerDay
Member
LOL
One ounce #7, usually through IC+IM fixed chokes of my SxS box lock. Sometimes ammo is provided by the outfitter and it often seems to be #6-7½ light 2¾" loads. That may have something to do with compatibility with many older SxS shotguns, but it seems to work just fine.
shlike
Member
I grew up hunting pheasant in SE Pennsylvania with my Dad. No need to go to a preserve, as we were surrounded by farms with corn and soybeans, perfect pheasant habitat. I recall having the crap scared out of me many times when a hen would flush right out from under my feet. Their coloration makes them virtually invisible when hiding at the base of a corn stalk. We hunted with a pair of Irish Setters which were our family pets. They had great hunting (pointing, etc.) instinct but weren't the best-trained, so they would have a tendency to flush the birds too early, hence the need for a full choke.
I used primarily a 12ga. Remington Wingmaster, full choke, #6 high-brass.
buck460XVR
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2007
- Messages
- 10,085
I'm thinkin' you mean 28g or gm(grams). That would be a standard 1 ounce load. 28 gr(grains) would be a tad light since it takes about 438 gr for a 1 ounce load.
I'm hip... I'm not judging or complaining. I just don't think you need heavy artillery for farmed birds, is all.
Why would one need any different load for released birds as wild birds? Generally the same bird. In reality, many game farms(especially years ago) use what is called a "Jumbo Mongolian" strain which is about half again larger than a wild strain. These birds because of their heavy weight are reluctant to fly, thus are more likely to run if there is cover. Thus because they are bigger in size and the ranges at which they are shot greater, one would probably want a heavier load. I have hunted wild birds in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa and South Dakota. I have yet to see any difference in distance of flush when using a Pointer. Same range, same bird=same size shot. Use what works for you.
In the last several years, many game farms are using hybrid pheasants with the hopes of providing a better quality hunt. These birds known as "Kansas" or "K-Thunders" are about the same size and fly just as fast as wild birds. Otherwise they use the standard "Chinese", which are the same ones originally released years ago and now are considered "wild". The way the birds are raised and kept before release also plays a big part of how "wild" or "tame" they act in the field. Nowadays growers try and limit the exposure of birds to humans to keep them afraid and wanting to flee as opposed to raising them like chickens and having them identify humans with food. Take that kind of rearing and add prime cover and the difference between a preserve hunt and a truely "wild" hunt is very little. Especially when using a good dog. Even when Iowa was in it's heyday and even South Dakota with their reputation for wild birds, still release/released birds to supplement wild populations. So you might think you are working wild birds, but you might just as well be working birds that were hatched in the same hatchery as the game farm birds.
1KPerDay
Member
Thicker down/feathers in wild birds, I'm told. Maybe smarter and flush further? I have no experience as all the pheasants I've shot past few years have been either farmed or recently escaped from farms. Pretty much everything public is posted around here here now, and the few towns that have a pheasant week get overrun with thousands of hunters. It's a madhouse.
All I know is IME, you don't have to use heavy #4 or #6 loads to reliably drop farmed birds. Dunno why some people are taking umbrage with this...
guyfromohio
Member
Caged birds flush later....closer to the shooter. I don't know anything about thickness of skin/down/feathers, but sometimes you're right on top of them.
I've never "purposely" hunted "preserve" birds, but we have neighbors who have, at various times, released a few pheasants. IME, there's a distinct difference in behavior between pen-raised and wild birds, but body structure has never been noticeably different in any way.
There is no difference between wild or pen raised pheasants. I see thousands of pheasants shot every year. At the beginning of the season they are a bit harder to flush but by the time we get to the third shoot they flush at the slightest sound.
Go back a hundred years to the great shoots in England, many were wild bird shoots where the guns killed 30-40 yard pheasants with black powder cartridges and a bit later with 2” 1 oz loads.
It’s the same as when I shot wood pigeons in the 60s I used 1oz loads in my 12 bore. I killed loads of pigeons. Now if you believe what’s written in the hunting press you must use super wizbang cartridges to kill the humble woodies.
I had a friend over from England for moose hunting last October. While he was here I had a invite on a mixed day. I worked my spaniels and my friend shot. He shot 1 partridge 4 pheasants and 7 ducks over the day with very few misses, all with 28g #6. But then he is a good shot And that’s more important than heavy loads.
Go back a hundred years to the great shoots in England, many were wild bird shoots where the guns killed 30-40 yard pheasants with black powder cartridges and a bit later with 2” 1 oz loads.
It’s the same as when I shot wood pigeons in the 60s I used 1oz loads in my 12 bore. I killed loads of pigeons. Now if you believe what’s written in the hunting press you must use super wizbang cartridges to kill the humble woodies.
I had a friend over from England for moose hunting last October. While he was here I had a invite on a mixed day. I worked my spaniels and my friend shot. He shot 1 partridge 4 pheasants and 7 ducks over the day with very few misses, all with 28g #6. But then he is a good shot And that’s more important than heavy loads.
buck460XVR
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2007
- Messages
- 10,085
Thicker down/feathers in wild birds, I'm told. Maybe smarter and flush further? I have no experience as all the pheasants I've shot past few years have been either farmed or recently escaped from farms. Pretty much everything public is posted around here here now, and the few towns that have a pheasant week get overrun with thousands of hunters. It's a madhouse.
All I know is IME, you don't have to use heavy #4 or #6 loads to reliably drop farmed birds. Dunno why some people are taking umbrage with this...
I am not taking umbrage other than wondering why folks with little or no knowledge are making statements that the birds hatched in the wild are somehow physically superior than the same breed of birds hatched in a hatchery. Farmed birds spend their adult life outside just as wild birds do. Most of the time with less protection from the elements. Still they have the same amount of feathers/down as wild birds. Birds do not get "winter" coats like deer and other fur-bearing animals. They are not like hogs and turn into a whole different animal when feral. They just puff/loft the feathers they have for more insulation. This is why a bird roosting in the cold looks bigger than when it's roosting in warm weather. Not more feathers/down, just more air space between them. Thus, as I said before there is no reason to change your preferred ammo when hunting released birds as opposed to what you use on wild birds. What works well for you and your gun for one, will work equally well on the other. I use 5 or 6s because they work well for me, are easy to find when cleaning a bird and leave less "feather trails" in the meat as opposed to finer shot. I raised pheasants for many years for training my dogs. I still raise quail for a recall pen every year for the same purpose. As I stated before, I have hunted supposedly wild birds for many years. About the only difference you will find when cleaning a wild bird compared to a raised bird is the raised bird will have a tad more fat on them late in the year.
As for flushing farther out, this basically relates to how far your dog ranges, whether you are using a flusher or a pointer and how much noise you are making in the field. Yelling and hollering will alert birds and make them flush farther out before they are pressed by the dog. Flushers will actively chase runners and tend to flush them farther out, whereas most pointers will point and walk a runner unless they see it running. Flushers will generally flush birds farther out as they are doing what comes naturally for them. My pointers hold till they are told to flush, thus whether wild birds or released birds, they are generally the same distance from the gun when told to "break". Runners are the hardest to hunt. Again, the Jumbos once used by game farms were more likely to run than fly. This did not work well when birds left the field where the patrons were to hunt. Wild birds that have been hunted extensively will run, because the flyers have already been shot. These birds run when they hear a car door slam or a shotgun action slam shut. This is when one needs a header at the end of the field.
d2wing
Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,431
Sounds like someone hasn't hunted late season birds on public land. Pen raised bird don't get much exercise and have never been hunted. They taken out of pens, are planted and shot. In the wild birds are in constant danger of all kinds of predators and are more wary, get more exercise and are wise to hunters and dogs. They may be the same but they don't act the same.
oneounceload
member
Pen birds do not get the running and hard flying in before being chased so the wild birds have tougher muscle. While 7.5s can do the job, I hate cleaning all those pellets out. Larger pellets pack more punch, are easier to clean and just do a better job. I still have some handloads of 1oz of #4s I reloaded for pheasant over 20 years ago. That was just the ticket when I used a light Ithaca pump
buck460XVR
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2007
- Messages
- 10,085
Just hunted public land on New Years Eve. Last day of Pheasant season around here. Don't get much later in the season than that.
Me and the youngest son teamed up on the only rooster we found. Flushed @about 10 yards after a staunch point from our GWP. Couldn't tell you for sure if it was a planter or a native, but the last stocking was done before Thanksgiving. I assume even if stocked that bird ran and flew as much in the last month and a half as any of the wild birds. Around here late season cover due to snow and lay down is much sparser than early season cover. Thus birds hold tighter to the little cover they find. They don't tend to like running across the open as hawks get them then. Still, I use the same size shot as I always do. One once of #6s in 16ga. Again, I raised pheasants for years. I do know the differences between wild and pen reared.Muscle mass on any pheasant is pretty small. Real wild strains of pheasants are smaller than many game farm birds, so they have less body mass even if they have more developed muscle mass. So there is no reason I feel it's necessary to use a different size shot. Others are free to disagree. Again, use what works well for you and patterns the best from your shotgun. Like you, I prefer a larger shot because I feel it makes less mess. I prefer sticking with #5s or above for safety of my dogs. The #6 loads pattern very well from my old Fox SxS. These are legitimate reasons to pick shot size and has nuttin' to do with where they were hatched. Again, others are free to disagree.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I hunt `em with a 28ga Merkel SxS and #6 or #7.5.
oneounceload
member
^^ I know someone who does the same with Beretta 28's - both he and his girlfriend hunt wild birds in Montana every year. Using dogs, he has no issues
How light is the Merkel, about 5.5#?
How light is the Merkel, about 5.5#?
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
According to my records, 5lbs 2oz.
1KPerDay
Member
That's something I hadn't considered... I used bulk 7.5 because that's what I had handy, and as noted they work fine... but if 5s or 6s do less damage/mess, that may be reason enough for me to switch.
USAF_Vet
Member
Successful hunt today. Three hens and two roosters.
[/URL][/IMG]
huntsman
Member
Very cool what did you end up using?
USAF_Vet
Member
Remington Sportsman 48 with 1 1/4 oz. #6 through imp mod choke.
- Status
