Pietta J.H. Dance and Brothers .36 Project

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expat_alaska

expat_alaska

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I just ordered a Pietta Traditions 1851 Navy .36 for my Dance .36 project from Old South Firearms on sale at $220 plus shipping, which is a fairly good price these days. I will have to see if it is so much better than the $170 Pietta 1851 Navy .36 I bought from Cabela's 2 years ago. I will have to decide which one will go under the mill to get the recoil shields milled off. And then I have to do the case colors.

It is a long ongoing project but I don't see anyone else doing it. If anyone else can comment it would be appreciated.

Until later,

Jim
 
I like recoil shields. When they are not present they are conspicuous for their absence. Some Dance Bros. in .36 had them. The Pietta .44 Dance sans shied is available. Why go choppin' on an otherwise lovely gun? I know, the short answer is: you want one. That's good enough for me but I still lack enthusiasm for such a project. It's your project though and you should do want you want - so to that extent I think we agree.
 
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Jim

I hope you are successful with your quest to recreate a Dance Brothers .36 caliber revolver! Got to love those Confederate revolvers!
 
As previously suggested, it's your project do what you will. I've done a few customizations that I may have been the only fan of so I pass zero judgement.
Most of the Dance Brothers revolvers were in .44 Caliber, but as we know they also made some in .36.

What is your plan to deal with the concave area of the loading gate?
Here is an example image of what I mean from Identification and Authentication of Confederate Handguns by Bill Gary.
It shows an authentic Dance Brothers revolver on the top, and a fake on the bottom.
I'm sure you can see the obvious difference right away.

dance.JPG
 
Eyrie G. Dogg said:
The Pietta .44 Dance sans shied is available. Why go choppin' on an otherwise lovely gun?
Click to expand...

The Pietta Dance .44 was created at the factory using a Pietta 1851 Navy frame with the water table lowered (not cut for a rebated .44 cylinder) for a larger diameter non-rebated .44 cylinder.

Pietta_Dance_44_Cyl.jpg

To use an old term, I want plug-and-play between my Pietta 1851 Navy .36 pistol parts.

Malachi Leviticus Blue said:
What is your plan to deal with the concave area of the loading gate?

It shows an authentic Dance Brothers revolver on the top, and a fake on the bottom.
I'm sure you can see the obvious difference right away.
Click to expand...

Blue, I understand your concern. The fake Navy in your picture is probably an original COLT Navy and they were made with at least 3 different right-side recoil shields/locations/depths, in addition to some having a cap-groove.

All of my Pietta 1851 Navy types are 2014 or newer (CNC machined) and there is at least a .015" of frame left after my machinist neighbor end mills off the recoil shields. I don't plan to shoot it, just to gaze upon. I have many other C&B 1851 pistols to shoot. I just want one because Pietta won't make one, and so far, no one else does either.

I will have to decide between the new gun and the 2017 as to which I go with for the Dance, and Bill Gary is well respected by me for trying to steer some folks away from fakes.

Mine will be easily discernible from a fake because, FWIW, it will still have the Italian proofmarks, date code, and the infamous Pietta billboards on the barrel.

At a distance, it will look like a Dance & Brothers .36, and that is all I want.

Thanks for all the comments and criticisms as I really appreciate anyone who can steer me from doing something stupid. I think I have a good line on this one.

Jim
 
Just received my Traditions Pietta 1851 Navy .36 today for $220. It is a nice gun but nothing more than the Cabela's Pietta I got two years ago for $170 on sale. I know that Cabela's will probably not do sales like that ever again since BPS bought them out.

I will post side-by-side pics of both guns later and look forward to your commentaries.

Jim
 
Cool project Jim. Are you going to turn the Navy barrel round or use a Griswold & Gunnison barrel?

As a side note, the .44 Dance barrel looks like it might have a little more metal between the chambers than an 1860 Army? I wonder if it holds more powder?
 
If I was doing a convert a Colt to a Dance project, I think I would include replacing the grips with beefed up panels and enlarged grip frame right after removing recoil shields and turning the barrel.
 
How are the caps retained with no recoil shield. I know the caps should be a press fit but these days the readily obtained CCI 11s are loose enough to fall off easy it seems.
 
If you file down the end of the nipples just a bit, it will snug up the caps since the nipples are cones and will end up having a larger OD at the end.
 
whughett said:
How are the caps retained with no recoil shield. I know the caps should be a press fit but these days the readily obtained CCI 11s are loose enough to fall off easy it seems.
Click to expand...

Pietta's are set up for Remington #10 caps. They fit tightly & shouldn't fall off, especially after the 1st cylinder is fired.
 
No pics yet as I have to recharge the batteries for my digital camera. :(

Disassembled it this morning. It has a CT date code (2018) and I see that Guido the Gorilla is still employed by Pietta with driving in wedges and tightening screws. I will probably take off about .001" from the fore and aft sides of the wedge as I have done with my other Piettas so that the spring lip protrudes from the right side of the barrel lug.

It has a much stiffer mainspring than my CP (2016) model which I will eventually address.

Insofar as differences, I don't get it why Traditions pistols are considered better than the "run-of-the-mill" pistols. The case colors are of the same quality, the wood is just plain quarter-sawn walnut with no figure, the bluing is the same, the timing is the same, and fit/finish is the same.

That said, I am going to go with the 2-year-old $170 Cabela's gun for the project. I have a spare plain (non-engraved) cylinder and will use the barrel from the Griswold & Gunnison. The octagonal barrel will be used to make the G&G into a Schneider & Glassick.

Jim
 
I doubt we are ever going to see sales at Cabela's on any 1851 Navy .36 again. All they seem to have are 1851 Navy .44 guns and I think they are having a hard time moving them. The price at Old South was the cheapest I have seen in a long time, especially for a Traditions steel gun. Cabela's still wants $250 for a standard Pietta Navy .36.

If you want an 1851 Navy steel .44 at a good price, I think Thanksgiving season might hold some promise. Right now all they are offering is .44 brassers at $200.
 
Ok, I'm confused.
So a Dance Bros is pretty much just a 1851 with the recoil shields milled off and a G&G barrel installed?
I didn't realize a G&G barrel would even work with a 1851 frame.
 
maint1517 said:
Ok, I'm confused.
So a Dance Bros is pretty much just a 1851 with the recoil shields milled off and a G&G barrel installed?
Click to expand...

Yes, and also with the plain non-engraved cylinder. Remember, these are .36 caliber pistols.

I didn't realize a G&G barrel would even work with a 1851 frame.
Click to expand...

The Pietta G&G uses their 1851 Navy brass frame, all of them .36 caliber. I have used that barrel additionally for my Leech & Rigdon, Rigdon & Ansley, and the fantasy 1851 Navy Second Model Dragoon squareback.

The Pietta Dance .44 uses a different frame, cylinder, and barrel.

Jim
 
Two other commonly referenced distinguishing features of a 36 caliber Dance are.... 1) the top of the grip is significantly beefier that a typical Colt, and 2) there is a misplaced screw due to an error in the wooden jig they used for drilling. (moving a screw to replicate might be difficult for most novices)
 
Malachi Leviticus Blue said:
Two other commonly referenced distinguishing features of a 36 caliber Dance are.... 1) the top of the grip is significantly beefier that a typical Colt, and 2) there is a misplaced screw due to an error in the wooden jig they used for drilling. (moving a screw to replicate might be difficult for most novices)
Click to expand...

Thank you for those notations, sir!

I think Pietta (post-2014) changed their grip style from the 2014 and earlier "tail" style to somewhat reflect that observation, and I doubt they had a Dance in mind. It was just that many folks complained about the "tail" although I like the feel in the hand. The newer style is a bit clunky.

As far as the original misplaced screw is concerned, I won't even attempt to replicate that. Pretty much only experts like you would know that. I doubt that Pietta even knew about that when producing their Dance .44, even though it was on a .36.

And I am too much of a novice to even consider moving that screw hole.

Thanks for the reply!

Jim
 
Well, I finally got my digital camera batteries recharged. The image is not that great because I have had cataract surgeries on both eyes last month and I have trouble focusing at certain distances, and until I get corrective lenses I am down to using off-the-shelf $10 +3.0 reading glasses for any close up work. Sorry!

OK, here it is what it is. The Traditions Pietta 1851 Navy .36 and the Cabela's Pietta 1851 Navy .36. I know which one is which but still have to look at the date codes to really be sure.

Pietta_1851_004.jpg

I am sure you observant guys will tell which is which. :)

The smooth cylinder is the one I will use for the Dance .36.

You folks have a good night!

Jim
 
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