Pig Hunting and the possible dangers of it.

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

So let me get this straight. You are trying to help educate newbie people but making jokes that are not representative of reality about pig aggression on humans without using emoticons to indicate you are making a joke? However, you expect newbies to have the common sense to know what pigs do and do not eat. For the folks who are newbies, what information are they to draw upon to come to the conclusion that feral hogs won't prey on humans given that you are talking about how much pigs attack humans?

Double, you really need to learn to relax man. If someone has enough intelligence to sign on to the internet then I would be willing to bet they would be smart enough to be able to see light humor in a statement. I am starting to see you as one of those "keyboard warriors" that has to attempt to start crap based on semantics and little word games. Wild hogs can be, and sometimes are, VERY aggressive and that was the main point.

Well then, what are you doing to make the hogs stay on edge and not calm down. Hogs stand still or close to it for some really prolonged periods of time. Just how still do they need to be before you are willing to take a shot? Are you waiting for them to bed down for a nap?

If you had actually read and taken what I stated in CONTEXT you may have figured out we were talking about using the smaller calibre weapons for HEAD SHOTS. The only time I have EVER seen a pigs head hold still for any period of time was when he has you nailed and staring you down trying to make out what you are. As far as body shots, yes they hold still quite a bit but not for long unless you are "hunting" over bait. Their heads are always moving which makes a brain shot an iffy proposition at best with the smaller calibre weapons in the hands of the less experienced shooter. CAN it be done? Of course. SHOULD it be attempted by the lessor experienced? Not really smart or productive in most cases. Which is the point. If you can't get that point then I can't make it any clearer for you.

Personally, I think the .45-70 is an outstanding hog caliber for hogs. Night vision doesn't like .45-70 recoil, however.

If you want to night hunt, try red or green spot lights with either low power mag optics or open sights. You are right about night vision and heavy recoil. They really do not like it. At least not the affordable ones on the market. You can get the Gen 4 with recoil suppression tech installed in them but you better have one healthy bank account and an understanding wife because you will be looking at around 4500 on the LOW side of the scale. If memory serves, I think there were some Gen 3's that had good suppression and could handle the recoil from the 338lap pretty well. I think they were from ATN but I am not sure. Never really got that much into night hunting except for some predator hunting back when I was a lot younger. And of course coon but a .22 and a wheat light was all that we used for them.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

california apparently knows very little about hogs or their hogs are immune to smaller calibers, .454 and .50 are not just overkill but expensive....believe me the .44 mag is plenty. I know, I kill em every day...

100% agree with that whole heartedly Tex. Killed many hogs with my .44mag. Killed a pretty good bit with my .357 python too back when I was young enough to scamper up a tree quick too just in case

 

[Double Naught Spy]

There were also statements made (by the same person of previous quote) that a .44mag loaded with HOLLOW POINT ammo would be "good medicine" for a hog which, in my opinion, is pretty poor advise given the tough "shield" that hogs have over their vitals and also the thick nature of their skulls.

So let's take a look at the nature of a hog's thick skull for which FFIL thinks a .44 mag hollowpoint would not be sufficient, keeping in mind that he doesn't want newbie hunters making the mistake of using the round as it might not penetrate a hog's thick skull.

Last night I went out to my place and took a couple of quick cell phone images of a skull from a boar I took earlier this year with a 5.56. The distance was .45 yards and he came in at about 200 lbs. Arrows in the image indicate where the round entered the skull. Notice that the vast majority of the left side of the brain case is now missing, the entry and exit impacts causing a lot of fragmentation of the skull.

The bullet entered through the left frontal bone just posterior and medial to the left eye, passing through the brain and exiting posteriorly through the occipital.

Now I don't know how light of a load folks might use for a hollowpoint .44 magnum round while hunting, but anything even remotely approaching standard factory ammo velocity is going to be more than sufficient for penetrating the so-called thick skull of a hog. As seen in the broadside image, the frontals and parietals are extremely thin. The same can be said for the temporal bones on each side of the brain case as well. Notice in the video above where little Rip was able to drop a hog with a .22 lr at 50 yards with a head shot? That is why.

No doubt there are some parts of the skull that are thick. This is the case with all mammals and the thickened areas tend to be those with the most mechanical stresses. Notice the point of contact between the parietal and the occipital in the top right of the broadside image. That is because of the attachment of musculature responsible for holding up/lifting the head. Similar thickening is common to many quadrupedal mammal, though the amount and distribution will depend on the specific taxon's genetics, lifeways, and mechanical/muscular stressors.

Hunters attempting to head shoot a hog for the purpose of striking the brain are not likely to be thwarted by the supposed thick pig skull unless they are trying to hit the brain via a quartering away shot entering the neck and going forward through the occipital. The top and lateral sides of the brain case are actually fairly thin and are thin compared to similar structures in the human skull. I doubt too many people would think the human skull to be too thick for the .44 magnum round, hollowpoint or otherwise.

All too often, hunters speak of the mythic capabilities of their intended prey to withstand amazing amounts of ballistic abuse. I noted above how this is commonplace for taxa such as bears and hogs because of their supposed thick skulls, but their skulls really aren't all that thick and as can be seen in the hog skull images here, can be extremely thin. The only thing I can figure out is that hunters claim these taxa to have thick skulls so as to blame the failure of their poor shooting on something other than their shooting. The video I posted above where the guys claimed the bullets were bouncing off the pig's head is absolutely classic in this regard.

However, after a while, these stories become commonplace and then you have folks coming along who attempt to educate newbies with this folk education and who pass the information on as factual without ever actually takng the time to verify what they are talking about. Educating people with wrong information is not productive and benefits nobody.

There is nothing magical about hogs.

 

[FLAvalanche]

And again someone missed the This is to help NEW hunters part of this thread. I too am quite capable of dropping them with the smaller calibres but I have hunted them longer than a lot of the new hunters have been alive. A WELL PLACED shot from a .223 with a good bullet can and will drop a hog easily even as far as 200 yards. But how many NEW HUNTERS do you know that are excellent marksmen and wont goof when speed is needed to take the shot? Anyone that has hunted hogs knows they never stand still for longer than a couple of seconds.

I didn't miss that this was for new hunters at all. If you aren't a good marksmen and you're using caliber to make up for accuracy you shouldn't be in the woods.

The ability to quickly and efficiently kill game is a requirement and a moral guideline. If they screw up with a .223 they're going to screw up with a .308 and relying on the bigger punch of the .308 to make up for a lack of marksmanship is, in my opinion, immoral when it comes to hunting.

 

[FLAvalanche]

There is nothing magical about hogs.

Good luck breaking that misnomer. It's runs wild on this very forum alone.

 

[GeoffC]

This whole thread is in reference to a post I made.
The jackass who started this thread posted my original post somewhere up near the top I think...

Hollow points work good, you can see that above from yet another person who actually hunts rather than just read about it.
Besides hunting with FMJ being illegal, it's moronic
Lifes pretty delicate, believe it or not, I promise it doesnt take much to kill most animals provided you use common sense.

If I gave a damn about what the OP here thought, I'm sure I'd regret referring to "common sense" as that term is relative.

To hear him tell it, you'd be lucky to go out in the woods and come back alive if only a couple of hogs lived among thousands of acres...

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Since you want to sit here and spew falsehoods here Geoff I will post exactly what I said about FMJ in the other post

Only issue with the AK would be FMJ bullets. They have to be a hunting bullet with an expanding design. Other than that, you are good to go with the AK. Take it, and the .44 on your side. I personally enjoy pistol hunting hogs as well as bow hunting them. Just getting close. Maybe hunt with the .44 and have the AK for backup!

Care to show me where I said FMJ was ok to hunt with?

And here sir is you saying something utterly ridiculous.

a 44 magnum loaded with a good jacketed hollow point is wonderful Alaskan Brown Bear medicine. I promise, it'll take care of the pig.

Going after an Alaskan Brown Bear with HP ammo in a .44?

As far as me "getting upset" at you in the other post, that was justgoto that went off on you. I simply laughed at you for that comment as far as .44 Hollow Points being "good medicine" for a Brown Bear.

Now on to Double. Maybe you should look at the Sectional Density of a .44 Hollow Point round Verses what round you hunt with in your 5.56. The velocities that your 5.56 reach are more than double what a .44mag will attain and with a PROPER bullet construction will get through bone MUCH easier than a hollow point round.

I have not, nor would I ever say that a .44mag hollow point round wouldn't kill a pig. What I have said (and you continue to attempt to twist) is that it is NOT a PREFERABLE round to use because of it's lack of PENETRATION. The round is specifically designed to expand in an explosive nature and is designed pretty much around killing a human being and we are generally pretty easy to kill compared to a lot of game species. Get up on top of a pig and a hollow point to the head would be ok for the most part, but actually HUNTING specifically with the round at range aiming for the vitals through that shield is a very poor choice.

Fla, I do not disagree with you in the least as far as marksmanship. But in reality, hunting situations are much different than at the range. Live game moves, targets don't. People who have lived most of their lives out in the woods hunting know how game reacts to certain stimuli and can get a pretty good read on their body language to know what they are doing. New hunters have no real clue about this and make mistakes on shot choices at times. Bigger calibres can help in these situations and you know this as well as I do. Marksmanship is indeed a much needed skill in the woods and I agree that it is required for both moral and obligatory reasons. But to say that a shot that wont kill a hog from a .223 wouldn't kill it if shot from a .308 with say a 150gr Interbond is a little on the naive side don't you think? Penetration being a major factor with these animals.

 

[FLAvalanche]

Penetration being a major factor with these animals.

Why do you feel that penetration on these animals is such a major factor? It's no different than a deer or a human.

Like it's been said, try breaking the misnoer that pigs are magical, mystical animals that can't be killed without a bullet constructed out of unobtanium shot out of a rail gun.

But to say that a shot that wont kill a hog from a .223 wouldn't kill it if shot from a .308 with say a 150gr Interbond is a little on the naive side don't you think?

I've watched hogs shrug off .308. I've watched them shrug off .300 WM. You know what those shots all had in common? Poor shots that weren't in the vitals. We're right back to something said on this forum many, many times. A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .45.

 

[FLAvalanche]

I've got a better question for you Freedom...

How many pigs have you killed this year?

 

[unwise11]

yall are all being immature. this thread is about dangerous pigs.
dangerous pigs are dangerous, they arent that easy to kill. have a gun you are confident with.
but calm down, you are acting like children and this is coming from a 14 year old.
ridiculous.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

I've got a better question for you Freedom...

How many pigs have you killed this year?

This year, none I haven't had the time to go down south. The economy has us all a bit on the scramble side to get away to hunt. Last year I brought back 11. 6 sows and 5 boars all taken with a 7mm.08. Still hunted, not over bait.

Why do you feel that penetration on these animals is such a major factor? It's no different than a deer or a human

Like hell it's not different. You get on a 200 pound boar hog and tell me it is no different than the ribs on a deer? You sir must have no clue about the thickness and toughness of those shields. I know them Florida deer are not much bigger than a cocker spaniel but I have been under the impression (haven't hunted pigs in Florida in a LONG time) that the hogs there were pretty much the same as in South Carolina and Texas when it comes to the general toughness. Or maybe you just shoot the little ones an have never come across a true 200+ pound boar which is what this thread is about! True trophy sized hogs. Hell you can kill a piglet with a BB gun. You get on an adult male and you enter a whole different world there bud. You need PENETRATION to reach the vitals of an adult male boar. THAT is something that the HOLLOW POINT round is NOT designed for. And in all reality the .223 simply does not have the bullet weight to ASSURE good penetration at range of the vital zone on a big boar. Meat hogs, hell yes a .223 would be effective and often is. But again, that is a MUCH smaller animal and it will more than likely not have that shield built up enough to slow the penetration of a well constructed bullet from about any calibre. There is nothing "magical" about it. It is simple physics and kinetic energy.

 

[mustang_steve]

If a 12ga did not do it, then it was a very rare failure. ~435gr (1oz) @ 1550FPS is no joke

 

[336A]

I have not, nor would I ever say that a .44mag hollow point round wouldn't kill a pig. What I have said (and you continue to attempt to twist) is that it is NOT a PREFERABLE round to use because of it's lack of PENETRATION. The round is specifically designed to expand in an explosive nature and is designed pretty much around killing a human being and we are generally pretty easy to kill compared to a lot of game species. Get up on top of a pig and a hollow point to the head would be ok for the most part, but actually HUNTING specifically with the round at range aiming for the vitals through that shield is a very poor choice.

I'm by no means a hog expert nor do I have a dog in this fight. However the above is completely wrong. Here are but a few examples.

Notice that Speer recomends this bullet for hunting not personal defense.
http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?id=195

Notice that hornady describes it's XTP handgun bullets as a controlled expansion bullet while offering deep penetration.
http://www.hornady.com/bullets

Federal lists both C44A and AE44A both 240gr JHP for use on deer which would cover wild hog as well as black bear.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/handgun.aspx

Win recomends thier 240gr SJHP for thin skinned CXP2 game as well.
http://www.winchester.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/super-x/hollow-soft-point/Pages/X44MHSP2.aspx

Pig taken with 240gr XTP-HP .44mag rifle
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,58771.0.html

Since the topic of "what do you recommend for Black Bears" pops up all the time I'm posting this link as well, as I feel it is relevant at least in terms of penetration, and bullet construction. Scroll down to post two
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,80093.0.html.

As you can see this 400# ubber agressive indestructable kevlar wrapped bear was neutralized with cheap Wal Mart Win White Box 240gr JSP ammo. So much for the misnomer that is so often posted on THR that you need to have some sort whiz bang super dupper mega magnum rifle round, or nuclear level 45-70 loads to harvest a black bear

Since I own a .44 mag rifle, before shooting any game with it I did a lot of research. I wanted to ensure that the rifle would not push the bullets I intended to use beyond the design capabilities. Especially since one can expect up to 500fps more velocity from the .44 mag when fired from a 20" rifle as compared to a handgun. As a result I went with the the Hornady 240gr XTP-HP over a max charge of H110, and I used it to harvest a nice sized 4 pt (150 pounds) this year at a whole 29 yards. Did the HP bullet explode or over expand from the increased velocity and such short range....?

Heck no it didn't, it completely passed through taking lung parts with it while traveling to parts unknown like a mad hornet. When I do go hog hunting next year however I'll more than likely switch to a 240gr JSP bullet, but then again I just may stick with the XTP-HP too.

Also as was stated above shot placement is everything regardless of the cartridge being used. I don't give a tinkers dam what you hunt with a bad shot on an animal is a bad shot. A round from a .300 Win mag in the guts of a animal is not going to kill vs a bullet from a .243 to the boiler room. Yeah it will die eventually but slowly and painfully where as the deer hit in the boiler room with a .243 will fall over within 25yd of being hit. I've seen deer hit in the guts with a 12GA slug run off never to be recovered, and I'm sure that other hunters have witnessed similar events as well.

 

[TIMC]

Hollow points work good, you can see that above from yet another person who actually hunts rather than just read about it.
Besides hunting with FMJ being illegal, it's moronic

Well I do not agree and I don't just read about it I live it! the only times I have ever had pigs get back up was when using HP ammo; this is not hearsay it is what I have wittnessed with my own eyes. I have killed hundreds of pigs over the last 20+ years of pig hunting. I have used all kinds of guns and ammo to kill them. No they are not hard to kill but they can be difficult. FMJ ammo is not illegal here on pigs because there are no game laws on pigs.
Since we are talking about experience or just reading about it... Well pics are worth a thousand words.













Ok now you have seen some of my experience.

 

[Justin Holder]

TimC, I salute you.

All I will add is I don't care for head and neck shots, I have heard to many stories of hogs running off after a so called perfect shot.

Boars do have a thick shield but it is not bullet proof, I will always take a shoulder shot if possible. I've taken them with everything from a 22 magnum up to a 30-06 without ever having to resort to a head shot.

.223 55gr V-Max @ about 200 yards


10mm 180gr. Gold Dot HP @ about 20 yards

 

[heeler]

I myself will take a head shot any day.
Even with the so called puny .243 with any 100 grain hunting bullet anchors them for the count.
Has never failed me.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Now on to Double. Maybe you should look at the Sectional Density of a .44 Hollow Point round Verses what round you hunt with in your 5.56. The velocities that your 5.56 reach are more than double what a .44mag will attain and with a PROPER bullet construction will get through bone MUCH easier than a hollow point round.

You know, sectional density differences between a .44 mag hollowpoint and a 5.56 are not even relevant when talking about penetrating a hog's skull. Both are more than substantial rounds when it comes to penetrating such thin bone. However, maybe you would like to compare the sectional density of Rip's little .22 lr to your .44 mag. Wait, it doesn't matter. When the hog's skull is that thin, grand ballistic performance is not needed for penetration.

I have not, nor would I ever say that a .44mag hollow point round wouldn't kill a pig. What I have said (and you continue to attempt to twist) is that it is NOT a PREFERABLE round to use because of it's lack of PENETRATION.

I quoted you directly. What is there to twist? You did specifically state that .44 mag hollowpoints are a poor choice for hogs because of the thick nature of thier skulls. Here, let me quote you again. I will quote you anew and put it into boldface....

There were also statements made (by the same person of previous quote) that a .44mag loaded with HOLLOW POINT ammo would be "good medicine" for a hog which, in my opinion, is pretty poor advise given the tough "shield" that hogs have over their vitals and also the thick nature of their skulls.

That is just out and out blatantly wrong, but goes hand-in-hand with what 336A noted about your portrayal of .44 mag hollowpoints.

The notion of educating newbies with information that isn't factual really isn't proper education, is it?

Get up on top of a pig and a hollow point to the head would be ok for the most part, but actually HUNTING specifically with the round at range aiming for the vitals through that shield is a very poor choice.

Ah, now the backpeddling starts.

Tim, your 3rd to last pic is a bit disturbing. It looks like the hog on your left is starting to get up when the picture was taken, LOL.

 

[TIMC]

Tim, your 3rd to last pic is a bit disturbing. It looks like the hog on your left is starting to get up when the picture was taken, LOL

Trust me; he was too tired to get up!

 

[FLAvalanche]

Like hell it's not different. You get on a 200 pound boar hog and tell me it is no different than the ribs on a deer? You sir must have no clue about the thickness and toughness of those shields. I know them Florida deer are not much bigger than a cocker spaniel but I have been under the impression (haven't hunted pigs in Florida in a LONG time) that the hogs there were pretty much the same as in South Carolina and Texas when it comes to the general toughness. Or maybe you just shoot the little ones an have never come across a true 200+ pound boar which is what this thread is about! True trophy sized hogs. Hell you can kill a piglet with a BB gun. You get on an adult male and you enter a whole different world there bud. You need PENETRATION to reach the vitals of an adult male boar. THAT is something that the HOLLOW POINT round is NOT designed for. And in all reality the .223 simply does not have the bullet weight to ASSURE good penetration at range of the vital zone on a big boar. Meat hogs, hell yes a .223 would be effective and often is. But again, that is a MUCH smaller animal and it will more than likely not have that shield built up enough to slow the penetration of a well constructed bullet from about any calibre. There is nothing "magical" about it. It is simple physics and kinetic energy.

Lol....wow. If you're going to tell me a .223 isn't enough to ASSURE good penetration and that it's all physics and kinetic energy then one of needs to go back to physics 101 because I do it all the time with .223.

So either the pigs I've killed are a figment of my imagination or you're simply talking out your butt because your head knows better. And I've got pigs in the freezer to support my theory...And at least 3 other people in this very thread that do the same thing.

And the shield is nothing special either, I put arrows through the shield. If an arrow can penetrate the shield without issue rifle rounds will too. Especially small fast ones like .223...

 

[kyle1974]

I've killed probably in the neighborhood of 200-250 hogs. the only time I have felt somewhat in danger is messing with hogs in a trap. I have walked up to them at feeders, had them 5 feet away from me in my pop up blinds and never felt "skeered". I have killed them from everything starting with a 22 magnum (in the traps), up to a 300 win mag or 444 marlin, and probably killed 30 or so with my bow. one of my favorite hog guns is my AR with 223 55 ballistic tips. You put the crosshairs at their ear hole, and they are going to die instantly of severe brain damage. it's liek a 55 grain grenade going off in their brain. I have yet to lose a hog shooting them in that spot. I have lost 2 hogs shooting them in the shoulder with a 160 grain speer bullets from a 7mm magnum though.... so much for what's "best" about shot placement.

The largest hog I have killed was with my AR. It was about a 120 yard shot, in the eye (facing me). his ass end dropped instantly and he locked up for at least 10 seconds before falling over...weirdest thing I've seen. He weighed about 275-300 lbs....

 

[alsaqr]

i hunt hogs an average of two days per week all year long. In the past 10 years i've killed 750-1,000 wild hogs. Hunt hogs with guns ranging form .22 magnum through .50 caliber muzzleloader. Most of my hogs ae killed using a muzzleloader.

One of the places i hunt hogs is 14,000 acres. It is restricted most of the year to shotguns and small shot or rimfire rifles. My gun when hunting on that place is a .22 magnum. Yep, that little bullet does a good job on hogs when you limit your shots to 50 yards and less and shoot them in the ear.

Four times wild hogs have come after me: Two were wounded, one was a sow with pigs and another time i was charged by a big boar who answered the distress call of a sow i wounded. Contrary to popular belief a hog sometimes makes an unprovoked attack. This happened to a friend of mine couple of years ago. He was knocked down by a charging sow he did not see until she hit him. That sow had never had a litter of pigs. i wear chainsaw pants when going after wounded hogs and when hunting in dense cover. A sow with 1.25" tusks can cut you up bad. Would not care one bit if a big hog tore me to pieces at age 105.

This is a very elusive hog that i've been after for about three years: Osama bin Laden was my name for him. Got him last Friday evening. This hog was 19" through the chest and his shields were over 3" thick.

 

[TIMC]

This is a very elusive hog that i've been after for about three years: Osama bin Laden was my name for him. Got him last Friday evening.

He sure looks young for a 3 year old pig. but hey ou got him, congrats!

 

[unwise11]

look, Most any centerire rifle cartridge will do the job if placed well (excluding the 17's)
I have never hunted hogs, I have heard they smell, and honestly I dont really like the idea of eating such a disgusting wild animal.
I have gone deer hunting, and I bring a .308
I havnt taken a deer yet, (im 14) but will soon. with a .308
but next year, I might bring my dads Ar-15 with ACOG for the does.
headshots only for that.
but hey, I understand all of this, But the .44 magnum cartridge is powerful enough to deiliver 739 ft lbs at 50 yards using the 300 grain jacketed hollowpoint round from BVAC
that will kill stuff. it is alot of force on the head. which wouldnt bounce off to my better judgement, and would kill from concussion of the skull and possibly crushing it.
a 168 grain gold medal match hollowpoint .308 round from federal delivers 2257 ft lbs at 100 yards. which would DEFINITELY kill the hog.
It is not rocket science. it is the truth, which has been posted here by tim who has taken hogs with 45 ACP and .223
anyone who says that wont kill a hog is LYING.
that is all for now.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Double, your fixation on ONE singular statement reminds me of a angry little miniature dobie trying to get some attention. There was no back peddling. If you had actually read the quote that you just posted you would have seen the mention of the "tough shield" FIRST and THEN the mention of the thick nature of the skull/head. All mammals have weaker PARTS of the skull that would be easily penetrated by small calibre weapons and your arguments are pretty weak since you have decided to fixate on that. Taken as a whole, on a LIVE animal not a skinned out carcass, a pigs head for the most part is pretty rugged for one, for 2 the sloping nature of its design will cause deflection as well on frontal shots. There are spots on an Elephants Skull that would be easily penetrated by a .223 with a quality bullet. Are you going to try to say it would be ok to go Elephant hunting with one? If you are, let me buy a HUGE insurance policy on you first so I can make some quick cash! Using the proper tools for the job is a requirement for any task.

As far as the Hollow point argument from 336a, Speer's hollow point as well as hornady's XTP both have them listed for hunting as well as defense and pointedly, I take ANYTHING from a manufacturer with a couple of grains of salt to say the least. Also, deer are a VASTLY easier body to penetrate than an ADULT boar hog. And I for one am not going after black bear with something that I am not assured will penetrate that heavy shoulder bone. I don't like head shots for many reasons but the main one is you have so much smaller of a target than you do with a broad side vitals shot.

I know the newer bullets from Swift Scirroco (A-Frame), Hornady (A-Max) and a few others are starting to make really good impressions on people with .223's and they are great bullets from all accounts for deer sized game. If you can punch through with a good pass through shot (if it's not a DRT) then you will get a good blood trail. But if not, that tiny little entry hole is not going to produce much for a blood trail so you will be hoof trailing. Good luck there in most parts of the country.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Okay Ffil, you stated as a fact about the "thick nature of a hog skull" and that in your opinion a .44 mag hollowpoint would not be good for it. Help me out here because apparently your understanding of suid osteology is much greater than mine. Just what bones on a pig's skull are too thick for a .44 mag hollowpoint to penetrate?

Now I know that the occipital is comprised of some of the thickest bone on a pigs skull, though it is not all that dense and is filled with diploe. The sphenoids can be fairly thick, but unless you are shooting from a ventral position under the hog, you aren't likely to have your shot need to pass through them in order to reach the brain. Even then, unless your hog is very old, the sphenoids won't be fused together and so not make for a very strongly protective structure. From that shot angle, your shot might go through the maxilla, palette, or auditory bullae, but those are all very thin bones and should not pose much of a problem for a .44 mag hollowpoint.

The petrosal is comprised of the densest bone bone on the skull and is part of the whole auditory complex and can be found below the external auditory meatus. While dense, there isn't much to the petrosal, however, though a shot through the posterior aspect of the temporal would have to pass through the auditory complex, but by that time, the bullet is already inside the brain case, so the benefit of the dense petrosal may be lost due to its interior positioning.

The nasals, frontals, parietals, and temporals are all fairly thin. The only place where the temporal appears to thicken up a bit is where it the zygomatic arch extends from it, but it doesn't approach the thickness of the occipital.

Underneath the thin nasals are the turbinal bones and sinus cavities. The turbinal bones can literally be as thin as tissue paper, though you may find some of the curls to be construction paper thickness. The sinus cavities are comprised of very thin-walled chambers. There isn't much there to stop a bullet.

Maybe you have a quartering away shot of a boar located at a higher elevation than you. Your shot comes in at an upward angle and strikes the most posterior ventral portion of the skull, the articulations of the occiptal where it joins the atlas, the occipital condyles. They are fairly stout as the occipital condyles and atlas vertebra form a significant load bearing joint. Of course if you hit the occipital condyles (either one or both), then you have blasted the atlas vertebra and no doubt done damage to the brain stem or upper spinal cord.

You can talk about angles and such and your discussion certainly may be correct, but the issue isn't angles, but thickness. Heck, you can skip a cannonball off of water if your angle of impact is too acute, but the issue isn't angles, is it? The issue is the thick nature of the pig's skull.

So where is the thick bone that is going to stop the .44 mag hollowpoints on a pig's skull again? You didn't like it when I pointed out the thinner bones of the brain case, noting that all mammal skulls have thin spots. Okay, all I want to know from you is where those magic ballistically resistent thick spots are. If you can tell us that, then we will all know where not to shoot, won't we?

I will even make it easy on you. For the sake of discussion, we won't even consider anything other than a mature hog over 6 years of age where the bones of the skull have finally fused together, giving it the greatest possible strength, in excellent health, and not so old that it has started suffering from degenerative bone conditions.