Pistol FMJ for bear country?

[Buck13]

This is not precisely a "hunting" question, as I don't *want* to shoot a bear, but...For hiking in bear country, if you had a pistol that was generally considered inadequate for bears, would you use FMJ to increase penetration?

A lot of people seem to consider the .357 marginal for brown bears. That leaves the .41 magnum and bigger. I haven't shot a .41, but don't really want to own one due to relative rarity of ammo. I don't like the .44, as it's got more recoil than I enjoy shooting more than a few rounds per day.

I do like the .357, but don't own one now (currently don't own any centerfire pistols). I'm more interested in an automatic right now. My first choice would be a 9 mm for fun shooting. A .40 might make more sense, but most of my chances to meet a brown bear in the woods are in Canada, and I'm not going to be crossing the border with a handgun, so this may all be academic.

 

[Robert]

If there are no brown bears where you live then why worry about it? FWIW there was a 9mm vs Bear thread in Handguns last week.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=660114

What gun for bear thread are a dime a dozon. Running a quick search will yeild you a good bit of reading. Even if most of the threads are locked.

 

[Kachok]

Hardcast trump fmjs for bear defense. Heavy hardast bullets penetrate much better, in fact there is a "trail defense" 9mm that penetrates 40" of ballistics gel. Both FMJs and hardcast penetrate deeper then any HP.

 

[dprice3844444]

what kachok says,hp's open up in the fat with less penetration.really makes the bear mad. if no cast bullets available,147 fmj will have to do.

 

[Kachok]

Buffalo bore makes hardcast bullets in nearly all calibers Just make sure your pistol is rated for +P they don't make any wimpy loads.

 

[jmr40]

Hardcast full wadcutters in any chambering is what you want. I carry a 10mm with 200 gr hardcast @1300 fps when in bear country. I'd use a similar bullet with any revolver round as well.

 

[Alaska444]

If you don't want to go to the higher caliber hand guns, then take what ever you want with one addition, bear spray. Please note that predatory black bears which indeed are rare but out there anyway may initially be repelled with an initial burst of pepper spray, but they have a habit of coming back again and again.

It is very unlikely you would encounter a predatory black bear, but in the cases where it has happened, you do need lethal force on top of the pepper spray.

I would hope you would consider the percentages when considering a hand gun as well. Yes, a 9 mm can kill a black bear but it is not a high percentage killing device even for people let alone black bears. Most folks consider 10 mm/.357 magnum the minimum bear gun for woods protection.

So if you are not going with a high caliber hand gun with hard cast ammo, yes, add the pepper spray.

 

[todayshighlights]

My (sorta) close call

I never thought much of these bear threads... until I was turkey hunting on Monday and had a black bear come onto the trail about 50 yards from me and heading my way.. The bear only walked toward me for a few feet, then headed further up the mountain. I could see it a few minutes later pulling bark off an old tree stump, then it slowly left the area. I felt underpowered with 5 shells of #4 turkey shot. It was the only time I took my Mossberg 500 off safe. The only turkeys I saw that day were at 12:05 pm (5 minutes after legal hunting hours), while I was driving out of the woods on the old logging trail.

Unfortunately, Massachusetts won't let hunters carry personal protection firearms afield while hunting. I could legally hunt black bear with my Police Service Six in the early bear season, but would have to defend myself with bird shot this time, if needed.

 

[Buck13]

I never thought much of these bear threads... until I was turkey hunting on Monday and had a black bear come onto the trail about 50 yards from me and heading my way.. The bear only walked toward me for a few feet, then headed further up the mountain.

One of the few times I saw a bear in the wild was 20 years ago in the Rampart Range area of Colorado. We were gathered for the pre-game briefing of a paintball game, and a black bear walked across the fire road about 50 yards away, glanced at us and kept walking in the direction of the playing field. As you'd expect, I looked at my gun and thought, "Oh crap, this shoot paint."

One of the referees had a real pistol. Of course, we never saw the bear again. Probably didn't like the smell of us, and he wanted to hurt us less than we wanted to hurt him.

 

[chuck plissken]

That thread a week ago is hillarious! All bears aren't thick skin african game! Yes Kodiak/Polar are huge but not like you'd think. A 9mm will sufice! seems people think they are bullet proof and always ready to eat you. SHOT PLACEMENT! Shoot often with your carry gun. Its important.

If you feel comfortable 357 or .40 cal then that would be fine. Im a 10mm fan and its what i prefer. I would feel comfortable with a 9mm 124gr FMJ and 15rds in the mag up against a black bear.

 

[Alaska444]

Today, 01:16 PM #10
chuck plissken
Member


Join Date: May 6, 2012
Location: cottonwood,arizona
Posts: 13
That thread a week ago is hillarious! All bears aren't thick skin african game! Yes Kodiak/Polar are huge but not like you'd think. A 9mm will sufice! seems people think they are bullet proof and always ready to eat you. SHOT PLACEMENT! Shoot often with your carry gun. Its important.

If you feel comfortable 357 or .40 cal then that would be fine. Im a 10mm fan and its what i prefer. I would feel comfortable with a 9mm 124gr FMJ and 15rds in the mag up against a black bear.

Yes, you are right, folks up here in northern Idaho also feel it is hilarious that folks would want to take a 9 mm as a woods gun. If that tickles your fancy, so be it.

 

[johnnyappleseed]

most people around here including myself don't go into the woods with anything smaller than a 44 magnum and max load hard cast bullets

grizzlies are the main threat here

i'd rather shoot an unpleasant recoiling pistol than something that might not get the job done on the other end

and actually a 44 magnum might not get the job done in a hurry

 

[Alaska444]

Today, 03:04 PM #12
johnnyappleseed
Member

Join Date: April 14, 2012
Location: Cody, Wyoming
Posts: 3
most people around here including myself don't go into the woods with anything smaller than a 44 magnum and max load hard cast bullets

grizzlies are the main threat here

i'd rather shoot an unpleasant recoiling pistol than something that might not get the job done on the other end

and actually a 44 magnum might not get the job done in a hurry

+1

 

[Kachok]

Any handgun that will penetrate the skull is good for a CNS shot, but should you not get a perfect shot a heavyweight 44 mag/454 Casull hardcast can still break a shoulder/leg or punch through to the vitals. I put ZERO faith in pepper spray, by time he is in range for that stuff he is already on top of you, and I have heard of a few cases where a gust of wind caused bear spray to backfire! That would SUCK Well at leased you don't have to watch the bear tear your heart out.

 

[chuck plissken]

I second the .44mag/45LC +p/454 casull.

I like the 9mm...but I carry 10mm or .44mag cause i want to NOT have an issue.

 

[Alaska444]

I almost went with a .454 Ruger SRH 7.5 inch barrel, but after test firing it, my hand was numb for 5 minutes. I cancelled the purchase after thinking better of it two days later.

I truly appreciate my .44 magnum which with the Buffalo Bore +P+ 340 gr's is at .454 power anyway. Up here in Idaho, more than half of the gun stores carry the BB +P+ for .44 magnum. I guess I am not alone in my choice up here.

 

[Bio-Chem]

Seems to me no matter what you are carrying if you have to actually fire it at a bear in a self defense situation then you have a major issue. I've got to agree with the individuals here arguing the "bigger is better" stance. I don't want to ever shoot an angry/charging bear especially with a handgun, but if I was placed in that situation i'd want the most energy and penetration possible.

 

[tahoe2]

40 plus

I believe in the 40 plus philosophy. At the very minimum 40 S&W(180 grn), 10mm(200grn), 41 mag(220 grn), etc..
I personally can't handle the 44 mag (weak wrist), but I do have two .41 mags Ruger BH and S&W 57 mtn gun.
Here in the Pacific Northwest (western WA) I don't worry about the big Grizzly too much, although an angry black bear can be a formidable foe,
a 44spl with 240grns @ 900-1000 fps will do the trick without the recoil of the magnums, as well as a 45 Colt (255 grns @ 950fps).
But for the really big bears go as big as you can shoot well.

 

[sixgunner455]

A 9mm is fun to shoot in the right gun, and the ammo is inexpensive. It will work for most things people actually use handguns for, but effective bear protection it is not.

If I were buying a trail gun so I wouldn't have to worry about effectiveness on mtn lions and black bears, I wouldn't get a 9mm. I would get a .357 or a .40 or a 10mm or ... something bigger, and load it with heavy WFN hardcast bullets going between 1100 and 1300 fps. If I were worried about big bears, I would jump straight to the something bigger, probably, unless I found that I couldn't shoot anything bigger in a handgun effectively. In which case, I would probably do what I should have done in the first place when worrying about bears, and get a 12guage pump and load it with some nice slugs.