Plated Bullet Questions

[DanTheFarmer]

Hi All,

I just starting up in the reloading world. I've been reading about plated bullets (Berry's, Ranier, etc.) and they offer some good cost advantages but I'm a bit confused about the load data I should use.

One common comment goes something like "Don't push them too fast. 1200 fps is a good rule of thumb for max speed."

The other is "Start with lead bullet data and work up, not exceeding mid-range jacketed bullet data."

I'll be loading 380 ACP, 9mm, and 45 ACP. My question is, What about those situations where high end jacketed bullet data is no where near 1200 fps?

I'm starting with Bullseye and Titegroup as powders.
I'd like to get my 380 ACP in the 900 - 950 fps range using 95 grain bullets.
I'd like to get my 45 ACP in the 800 - 900 fps range using 230 grain bullets.
SOME of the 9mm loads listed with 115 or 124 grain bullets are approaching 1200 fps.

With speeds this low for the 380 and 45 do I need to worry at all? Can I use near max jacketed data since the speeds are still well below 1200 fps?

What about using Montana Gold or Precision Delta jacketed bullets and not worrying at all? (I'm not getting into casting my own at this stage.)

Thanks for any and all input.

Dan

 

[BigDog2]

I'd say you've looked at the normal information and made the right choice. Your not exceeding any limit and everything should work well. I use Berrys all the time, they work well for me. The only other thing to worry only a very small bit about, is not to over crimp the rounds. But with the rounds your loading, this shouldn't be an issue.

 

[rcmodel]

Not to worry.

The 1,200 FPS warnings are all about .357 & .44 Mag loads capable of easily exceeding that velocity more then anything.

Berry says to use Mid-level jacketed bullet data.
Ranier says to use lead data.
That is fine, in that Berry has a little thicker plating then Raner.

Some lead bullet starting load data is too low for use with plated or jacketed bullets due to the copper having higher friction then greased lead. As a result, it is easier to get a stuck bullet with jacketed or plated bullets when using very light lead bullet data.

I would suggest you have set your sights too high though, if you expect to get 950 with a 95 in a .380. Or 900 with a 230 in a .45.

Both those are possible with allowable pressure, but not with very fast powders like Titegroup & Bullseye.

If you want to go that fast safely, you need to pick a slower powder.

rc

 

[Walkalong]

Yep........

 

[LiveLife]

One common comment goes something like "Don't push them too fast. 1200 fps is a good rule of thumb for max speed."

Walkalong testing 125 gr 357 PowerBond bullets to 1300+ fps without plating failure or separation in this thread.


Copper plated bullets have improved in quality significantly the past 15 years I have been reloading. Back then, plating on some commercial bullets was so thin that I could easily leave impressions on the plated bullet surface. Even at mid-high range jacketed load data, the lands of the rifling were cutting through the plating into the lead core.

When I found Rainier/Berry's bullets, I was impressed that even at max load data, plating held up without rifling cutting into the lead core. So far, it's been my experience that PowerBond has the thickest and strongest copper plating I have used. With these three brands of plated bullets, I have never experienced plating separation for taper crimped semi-auto reloads and have been careful to not roll crimp too much to cut through the plating.

Fast forward to present. I believe plating technology and quality standards have improved to the point that we really don't need to worry about plating failure using jacketed load data. I think the concern over which load data to use (jacketed vs lead) has to do with the diameter of the plated bullets compared to jacketed/lead bullets to maintain safe chamber pressure and duplicate the velocity performance.

Here's a listing of bullet diameters and what each manufacturer had to say about load data and plating thickness for their bullets (BTW, I could not find plating thickness info for Rainier bullets):

Rainier Ballistics:

45ACP: .451" - same as jacketed
40S&W: .400" - same as jacketed
.38: .357" - same as jacketed
9mm: .355" - same as jacketed

"We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data. Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data. If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend reducing maximum charge by 10%. A roll or taper crimp may be used with our bullets; do not over crimp."

Berry's Manufacturing:

45ACP: .452" - same as lead
40S&W: .401" - same as lead
.38: .357 - same as jacketed
9mm: .356 - same as lead

"Depending upon the caliber, the thickness of the plating on our bullets ranges from 3.5 up to 8 thousandths of an inch of plating on each side. This is thicker than paper and ensures no lead in your bore. The bullets designed for higher velocities (45-70, 500 S&W etc.) have the thickest plating.

Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads."

PowerBond:

45ACP: .451" - same as jacketed
40S&W: .400" - same as jacketed
.38: .357" - same as jacketed
9mm: .3555" - halfway between jacketed and lead

"PowerBond Bullets begin as extruded lead wire which is then swaged to achieve proper diameter, shape and weight. With a weight variance of 1.5 grains or less, PowerBond Bullets exceed Match Grade standards.

Our proprietary plating process electro-chemically bonds the copper to the lead core. Our copper is thicker and tougher than other bullets...between 10 and 11-thousandths. Proper adhesion is continuously monitored and tested to ensure uniform, maximum bonding."

 

[PO2Hammer]

I've gone up to 1,300 fps in the .38 Super with the Rainier .356" 130 RN with great results.
Berry's .45 bullets are great as well, 900 fps won't bother them.
Berry's also has a new .40 cal thick plated bullet for those who want high velocity in the .40s&w or 10mm.

 

[LiveLife]

What about using Montana Gold or Precision Delta jacketed bullets and not worrying at all? (I'm not getting into casting my own at this stage.)

Montana Gold uses brass jacketing and Precision Delta uses copper jacketing. I haven't used Precision Delta jacketed bullets, but Montana Gold has been very consistent in bullet-to-bullet weight variance (typically less than 1 gr) for match shooting accuracy. For me, I consider Montana Gold to be the premium bulk jacketed pistol bullets you can buy and PowerBond to be the premium bulk plated pistol bullets. Rocky Mountain Reloading (longdayjake at THR) carries a variety of jacketed and plated bullets (including Montana Gold, PowerBond, and I think Zero or Precision Delta) that you can try and he'll let you mix and match in quantities of 250+ (Maybe longdayjake can verify which bullets he stocks currently).

Montana Gold 180 gr 40S&W FMJ:

Precision Delta 180 gr 40S&W FMJ:

PowerBond 180 gr 40S&W Plated:

 

[ralph2]

I live near where X-treme plated bullets are made and have shot a lot of them with mixed
results. I have had good luck with my glock 17 (9mm) but not so good with my kimber 1911 (45acp)
and glock 21 (45acp). I once recovered a bullet shot in the 1911 and a piece of plating was
trailing off the back of the bullet, I believe the thin plating is cut through by the rifling and the
plating sometime peels off in flight. My Marlin 357 rifle loves then and I have pushed them near
2000fps for 125 grain bullets.

 

[noylj]

I shoot jacketed or lead. Never was interested in plated (except for Gold Dots). Jacketed bullets are almost starting to look inexpensive.
Don't try to load plated bullets to high end jacketed data that exceeds 1200fps. In general, use lead bullet data. I would use lead bullet starting loads and work up.
Most plated bullets have very thin and fragile plating. If the plating is cut through, you will get leading and very poor accuracy.
Right now, plating is being cost of business due to EPA. Plated bullets aren't that much more than some jacketed. Look at Montana Bullets, Roze Distribution, and Precision Delta.
Precison Bullets makes great Moly-Koted bullets. Many people make great cast bullets (mastercasterbullets / Penn / Magnus / Meister / LaserCast).
Precision Delta, as I remember, makes great swaged bullets, along with their jacketed bullets.
The only reason to use plated is if you are shooting at an indoor range that does not allow lead bullets and jacketed are still too expensive for you. I use lead and moly-koted lead for all my shooting.
Here is a summary of 9mm bullets I made up for an intended purchase soon:

9mm Bullets

~115gn:
Midway:
Remington
9mm 115gn FMJ
$53/500, $101/1000, $189/2000
9mm 115gn JHP
$60/500, $109/1000, $192/2000
Winchester 115gn FMJ-HB
$55/500, $107/1000, $191/2000
Penn Bullets:
9mm 115gn H&G 68 SWC
$36/500, $70/1000
Precision Bullets:
9mm 115gn FP
$43/500, $65/1000
Black Bullets International:
9mm 115gn RN
$42/500, $63/1000
Missouri Bullet:
9mm 115gn RN
$110/2000
Meisterbullets.com:
9mm 115gn RN
$93/1000
Montana Gold:
9mm 115gn FMJ
$99/1000
9mm 115gn JHP
$100/1000
Roze Distribution
(Zero Bullets)
9mm 115gn JHP
$82/1000
9mm 115gn FMJ
$80/1000
Manny USA
(Montana Gold?)
9mm 115gn JHP
$291/4000 (6 case minimum)
PowderValley
(Zero Bullets)
9mm 115gn FMJ
$43/500, $80/1000, $220/3000
9mm 115gn JHP
$46/500, $86/1000, $230/3000


~123gn:
Midway:
Remington
9mm 124gn GS-JHP
$71/500, $127/1000, $226/2000
9mm 124gn JHP (product 23557)
$62/500, $112/1000, $198/2000
9mm 124gn FMJ
$63/500, $109/1000, $195/2000
Winchester
9mm 124gn FMJ-FB
$60/500, $118/1000, $204/2000
Penn Bullets:
9mm 120gn TCBB
$34/500, $65/1000
Precision Bullets:
9mm 125gn FP
$44/500, $67/1000
Bayou Bullets
9mm 125gn RN
$34/500, $67/1000
Bullet Superstore:
9mm 125gn TC:
$41/500
Bulletworks.com:
9mm 125gn RN
$58/1000
Chey-Cast Bullets:
9mm 124gn CN
$32/500, $58/1000
Carolina Cast Bullets:
9mm 124gn TC
$35/500
Missouri Bullet:
9mm 125gn RN
$110/2000
Dardas Cast Bullets
9mm 122gn FPBB
$27/500, $50/1000
Mastercast.net
9mm 125gn CN
$27.26/500, $50.51/1000
Mastercastbullets.com
9mm 125gn TCN
$48/1000
Meisterbullets.com
9mm 122gn FP
$89/1000
Montana Gold:
9mm 121gn IFP
$100/1000
9mm 124gn FMJ
$99/1000
9mm 124gn JHP
$107/1000
Roze Distribution:
Zero Bullets
9mm 124gn FMJ
$80.54/1000
9mm 125gn JHP
$83.92/1000
Manny USA
(Montana Gold?)
9mm 121gn Inter’l FP
$281/3800 (6 case minimum)
PowderValley
(Zero Bullets)
9mm 124gn FMJ
$43/500, $82/1000, $224/3000
9mm 125gn JHP
$46/500, $86/1000, $230/3000

 

[Walkalong]

Precison Bullets makes great Moly-Koted bullets

I agree. I love their .45 Caliber 200 Gr SWC. Shoots great, cheaper than plated or jacketed, and clean to handle with virtually no smoke when firing.

 

[LiveLife]

longdayjake confirmed that he stocks Montana Gold, PowerBond and Zero Bullets.

Zero FMJ:

 

[mboylan]

Plated bullets cannot be pushed as fast as jacketed bullets using the same powder without generating excess pressure. If you want higher velocities, you need to use a slower burning powder.