Two Bullet Questions

[DanTheFarmer]

Hi All,

I've got a couple of bullet questions. I'm know what the commonly given answers are but I'm hoping to get an explination as to why.

1. What load data should you use for plated bullets? The common answer is to use no more than mid-jacketed load data. The reason usually given is to prevent copper fouling as the thin plating may come off at high velocities. Can I use max jacketed data if it is well below 1200 fps? (Think 45 ACP, 380 ACP, many 9mm loads are below this) Is there another reason besides copper fouling/plating integrity to avoid max loads with plated bullets?

2. Premium rifle hunting bullets. Should I use premium bullets for game on the large size for a given caliber? I've got a 7mm-08 and for use on moose or elk the often given answer is "it will work fine if you use a premium bullet". Since my rifle can't drive the bullets a magnum velocities how are premium bullets helpful? For example I got a nice load for a 154 grain Hornday Interlock at about 2750 fps. How would the Interbond version of that bullet do any better on moose or elk? If I had a 7mm STW or other whiz-bang magnum and was driving that bullet at 3200 fps I can see what's going on but what am I missing at "normal" velcoties?

Thanks guys.

Dan

 

[gamestalker]

With plated bullets there are some variables to consider regarding the manufacture's recommendation as to what that bullet is capable of handling. For instance, a Speer Gold Dot, which is a plated bullet, is intended to be loaded with jacketed data because it has a very thick plating. And some others on the market as well are manufactured to handle jacketed data. Many of the plated manufacturer's will provide the velocity criteria if you contact them, and also general data for their products. The proper approach is to use data that falls some where in between lead and jacketed, while maintaining velocities within the recommended limitations. And in this respect, it's always prudent to start at the lower end of what would be the mid point between lead and jacketed, and then increase as desired, while watch for fouling as you go up. And if you have a chrony, then you should have few problems keeping them within their velocity limits as well.

As for rifle hunting bullets, I use a bullet based on it's intended purpose and how well it performs with regard to accuracy. If premium means a match grade bullet, then no, cause it is intended to punch paper, not big game. So when choosing the right bullet for something like elk, I use a bullet that is constructed for thick skinned game. Nosler, Speer, Barns and others have bullets that are constructed specifically for thick skinned large boned game. I've had excellent results with Speer Hot Core for elk, bear, and lots of deer. I think that Speer now offers one called the Deep Curl which may be the Hot Core being reintroduced, not sure on that. Do some research on bullets by manufacturer, each manufacturer describes their line of bullets and the purpose for which they are designed.

GS

 

[Ex]

GS covered it pretty well! I'd add one thing.

In any pistol caliber I load for (many) if I load the velocity over about 1030-1050, tumbling occurs. I shoot a lot of .45 berrys. Berrys don't have the reputation for being the thickest plated but I shoot them in the .45 because they run about 875 ft/sec.

Everything else I load for, (9mm, .38 spl, .357 mag, .40, 10mm) I use quality jacketed hollowpoints from either http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RZD&Category_Code=ZJB or http://montanagoldbullet.com/index.php/catalogsearch/result/index/?limit=all&q=bullet

 

[Bovice]

You don't want to go past 1200 with plated bullets because if you do, they'll tumble and hit your chronograph.

Keep them in the low to mid range.

Added: if you're getting tumbling just north of 1000 fps, something is wrong. If you crimp the case too far in and perforate the plating, it's the same as shooting it too fast. It strips the plating and causes a tumble.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Your 7mm08 with "regular" bullets will do fine. I suggest the 150gr Remington Corlokts, 154gr Hornady "Interloks", and 160gr Sierra BtSpt. I've got a gunsmith friend that used a 7x57 mauser all over north america and took everything but a grizzly/brown bear with it. For those two, he used a .338winmag, but said that the 7x57 with the three bullets I listed would have done just fine...

My best friend used my 7mm08 to take a 1,000+lb 6x6 bull elk in '05. I sent him with Nosler 140gr Partitions, and they completely penetrated the elk with broadside hits...

No real need for "so called" premium bullets in 7mm08. Just a good quality bullet such as Hornady, Sierra, Speer, or Nosler.... Those used to be the "premium" bullets everyone talked about....

 

[arizona98tj]

In any pistol caliber I load for (many) if I load the velocity over about 1030-1050, tumbling occurs. I shoot a lot of .45 berrys. Berrys don't have the reputation for being the thickest plated but I shoot them in the .45 because they run about 875 ft/sec.

I don't think I've ever ran across a statement like that (Berry's tumbling).

I load Berry's 115 gr RN over Unique for a velocity of 1152 FPS out of my 4" Springfield XD range gun. I also shoot it in two other 9mm autoloaders where the shorter barrels yield about 1050 FPS. I typically shoot my range gun out to 25 yds (on paper) and after thousands of rounds using that load, I've never seen a keyhole in my target....from any of my 9mm pistols. I check the targets quite closely.

FWIW, I just checked my reloading log....during load development with the above bullet, I pushed it up to 1209 FPS out of the XD. No problems noted (per my notes).

 

[witchhunter]

Remember the bullet is the only thing that touches the intended target. Also, the bullet needs to penetrate to the vitals to be able to do it's job. I use Nosler Partitions exclusively on big game. These bullets have the best of both expansion and penetration. I watch hunting shows on tv and am not impressed with the good hits they make and then they trail a ways to find the buck. Watch a good hit with a Partition, it is still on the screen because it will be down right there, not 50 yards away. Just my observations.

 

[Walkalong]

1. Plated bullets

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6195350&postcount=11

Some of the online data includes plated data. Just have to look for it.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Premium bullets are designed to lose minimal mass on impact, not to seperate the jacket from the core and to have a controlled expansion.

This is for a couple of reasons;

- the more mass and velocity the bullet retains on impact the more Kinetic energy it has for penetration KE = 1/2m X v^2 (half the mass X velocity squared).

- Controlling the expansion to a desired diameter reduces the bullet area presented (less resistance) to the carcass and therefore improves the penetration.

- Bullets that retain maximium mass and velocity are more likely to penetrate bone when needed without fragmenting.

- Bullets that don't fragment generally result in less meat damage.

It is fair to say that non "premium" bullets do kill, when presented with the percentage shot into the boiler room with but one rib to penetrate. The bullet makes it's way through and fragments into many pieces, often seperating from the copper jacket, this makes a mess of the insides, effective.

I use both, just returned from a hunting trip. I used 120gr, Sierra Pro Hunters in my 6.5mm for Springbuck, did not recover the bullet. Used 180gr. Accubonds on a Blue Wildebeest and got the mushroomed bullet under the skin on the opposite side. Both shots in at the shoulder and at the same distance. The Wildebeest has zero meat damage the Springbuck some meat damage.

The difference is that the Springbuck is a very soft skinned animal presenting little resistance to the bullet while the Wildebeest is a lot tougher.

 

[astra600]

Berrys recommends using lead bullet loading data with their plated bullets.

 

[Walkalong]

That is Ranier. Here is the Berrys.

Anyway, there is a lot of plated data around, and the new Western Powder 5.0 PDF has a good bit for some Berrys and Ranier bullets. I forgot to link it earlier. ClemsonAL clued us into it in an earlier thread today.