Plated vs Jacketed

[IdahoSkies]

I just came across some bullets I am not familiar with. What is the difference between plated bullets and the jacketed bullets I have been loading with?

 

[Hondo 60]

The plated bullet mfgs recommend you use lead data, or at the very most low to mid range jacketed data.

Berry's recommends that you go no faster than 1200 fps with pistol bullets & 1800 fps with rifle bullets.
http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q10-c1-How_fast_can_I_shoot_these_bullets.aspx

The difference is that plated bullets generally have a thinner copper skin (but not necessarily always).
An electrical charge is run through the bullets in a bath solution.
That charge causes copper to adhere to (or plate) the bullet.

Jacketed bullets are wrapped in a copper sheath or jacket.

Hope this doesn't confuse you further & I hope helps.

Stay safe my friends.

 

[1SOW]

The copper "plated" jacket is a little more fragile than the harder jacketed rds.

Different manufacturers use varying thickesses of copper plating.
Some are more easily damaged than others. If damaged by excesssive speed or excessive taper crimp, the plating can separate from the bullet causing poor accuracy and other problems. This leads to a "speed limit" for plated bullets.

As Hondo said: Berry's bullets (.356" dia) recommends using jacketted loads from the starting load to mid-range loads/speeds, not to exceed 1200'/sec.

They also make one "TP--Thick Plated" bullet. The .356" dia 124gr HBRN TP is rated separately up to 1450'/sec designed for 38 Super pistols. This bullet shoots very nicely in 9mm pistols.

Again, each manufacturer plates bullets to their standards, so read the fine print before you put them over a heavy powder load. Many suggest using "lead bullet" load data.

 

[SHR970]

Hondo 60 said: The plated bullet mfgs recommend you use lead data, or at the very most low to mid range jacketed data.
&
The difference is that plated bullets generally have a thinner copper skin (but not necessarily always).

Part A: Depends

Part B: Usually the case

Missing is the fact that Speer Gold Dot and Uni Core bullets are PLATED bullets.

Truth is that different manufacturers use differing core hardnesses ranging from fairly soft to reasonably hard. Then you add in the variations in plating thickness to confuse matters more.

Accurate Arms was the first powder distributor to my knowledge that addressed this problem. They came out with load data specific to Ranier Plated bullets. That data is milder than lead / cast bullet data in almost every instance. Ranier uses a combination of a softer alloy and thin plating; or so my experience and samples tell me.

I have no experience with Berry's therefore no comment.

Xtreme (Accura / West Coast) uses harder alloys and thicker plating; I have driven their 357 158 gr.PSWC and 110 gr. 30 Carb. to full house loads with AA#9 and W296. I found that slightly less than full house gave best accuracy. I did not peel the plating and have recovered slugs that attest to their durability.

Then comes the Gold Dot and UniCores; the thickest jackets available to my knowledge. As seen in the Speer manual, these go all the way for any caliber. They may have down rated the max charge a little but so did everyone else over the last 10-15 years. These plated bullets are listed right along side of their jacketed bretheren.

Are the waters muddied enough?

The best advice is to contact the manufacturer of the plated bullets and ask them what their limitations are. Some say use lead data, some up to mid jacketed data, some under 1200 fps., etc. They have the better knowledge of what should be a safe load with their product.

 

[Walkalong]

Accurate Arms was the first powder distributor to my knowledge that addressed this problem. They came out with load data specific to Ranier Plated bullets. That data is milder than lead / cast bullet data in almost every instance

Lighter than lead data can stick plated bullets.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6195350&postcount=11

Xtreme (Accura / West Coast) uses harder alloys and thicker plating; I have driven their 357 158 gr.PSWC and 110 gr. 30 Carb. to full house loads with AA#9 and W296.

I have also driven the X-Treme 158 Gr SWC to 1300 plus FPS with excellent results. They shoot well in everything I try them in.

 

[SHR970]

Walkalong,

Not to sound contrary but I am talking about published data that has appeared in manuals and Accurate online data. You will even find it republished in the LEE #2 Manual. For all to see here is one of the ORIGINAL DATA PAGES: Compare to Accurate Arms V3.4 load guide or even the current V3.5 on line which has load data that is even more sedate: Rainier Ballistics

Again, the manufacturers recommendations vary widely when it comes to plated. When in doubt consult them.

Edit to add: Note that this info is Copyright 1993. It is the earliest data that I am aware of on this subject. If you compare it to data of the period you will find it is in many instances under starting lead data...and in some cases that still holds true today.

 

[Walkalong]

Starting lead data in some applications can stick plated bullet, much less lighter than that.

Not arguing the data.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Western Powders published loading data for both Rainier and Berry's bullets in past manuals, but have pulled it off their website, since they're reworking the data at this time. Jay Phillips, of Berry's Manufacturing, confirmed this to me just last week. Hodgdon is working on data for Berry's Bullets right now, with most of it done, but not published, except for a .380 acp bullet.

There is a difference in friction down the bore between lead and jacketed bullets, hence the difference in loading data. A powder charge that may safely drive a lead bullet down a long barrel will stick a jacketed or plated bullet in the barrel, if it doesn't produce enough pressure to overcome the added friction of the copper jacket/plating.

I've driven Berry's bullets with full jacketed loading data in 9x19 and 357 Sig, and it's worked fine. What didn't work was a full house load of Power Pistol under a Berry's plated 124 gr. 9mm bullet in 357 Sig, which produced 1,450 fps. That was over driving the bullet and caused them to tumble, since the plating and soft core couldn't hold the rifling at those velocities, and the bullet wasn't designed for that kind of speed.

If you use mid-range jacketed loading data with most any plated bullet, they will work fine. I've shot Western Nevada bullets (now defunct), Rainier and Berry's plated bullets, and they all shoot like they're supposed to. I prefer Berry's, and I've shot over 30,000 of them over the years in 9x19, 9x21, 357 Sig, 38 Super, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, 10mm, .400 Cor-Bon, .41 Magnum and .45 acp in handguns. Their 350 gr. .45-70 bullet is one of the most accurate I've ever shot in my rifles, too.

Speer Gold Dots are indeed a plated bullet, but the plating is much thicker, and is considered a jacketed bullet for reloading purposes.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[SHR970]

Reloader Fred said:
Western Powders published loading data for both Rainier and Berry's bullets in past manuals, but have pulled it off their website, since they're reworking the data at this time. Jay Phillips, of Berry's Manufacturing, confirmed this to me just last week. Hodgdon is working on data for Berry's Bullets right now, with most of it done, but not published, except for a .380 acp bullet.

As I noted, the data I linked to was 1993 and the earliest published data I know of. You will still find Accurate specific data listed in the Lee #2 as it is just a regurgitation of Accurates older data.

Walkalong: I don't doubt that you can stick a plated using sub lead or starting lead data. That wasn't my point. I pointed out that this is a very subjective situation and one size doesn't fit all. I also stated that a person should consult the manufacturer of the bullets for their recommendations as they are better suited to tell them what is safe and the performance limitations of their product. Please look at the last paragraph of my fisrt answer on this subject. I thought I made that point clear enough. :banghead:

It is good to know that both Western and Hodgdons are revisiting this subject as we speak. At least we can cover Ramshot, Accurate, Winchester, IMR, and Hodgdons powders.

One can in fact use published data and get into trouble: that holds true for plated as well as jacketed bullets.

 

[Walkalong]

When you post this

Accurate Arms was the first powder distributor to my knowledge that addressed this problem. They came out with load data specific to Ranier Plated bullets. That data is milder than lead / cast bullet data in almost every instance. Ranier uses a combination of a softer alloy and thin plating; or so my experience and samples tell me.

it sounds as if you are advising people to use lead or lighter data with plated, despite your also mentioning to check with the bullet maker. Many people do not read thoroughly, just skim. Many people read these forums, and I felt it was good advise to make sure people would be aware that going to light using lead data can stick plated bullets. I still do. Again, I will not argue data, or anything else, but merely make my point.

 

[Walkalong]

I too am looking forward to more new data on plated bullets. It will give us something more substantial to point folks towards.

 

[armoredman]

Berry's says to use the mid range of jacketed data, and that has worked well for me. I am trying out a 9mm bullet from Berry's right now, the 115 HBRN-TP,(Thick Plate), and I intend to see just how hard I can drive this puppy.

 

[Walkalong]

I have driven the 124 Gr HBRN TP Berrys over 1350 in .38 Super with excellent results.

 

[beatledog7]

I've very successfully loaded plated bullets using starting jacketed loads for the same weight and working up from there.

This is particularly useful for semi-auto calibers for which lead data is limited and plated data is all but non-existent.

 

[1SOW]

A-man, are you going to chrono that new bullet?
Would sure like to know if it'll go 1450'/sec.

 

[TonyT]

I have used both the Berry's and Rainier plated bullets which have a thin copper plating over a soft lead core. I do not push the plated bullets beyong 1050 fps and have found that they provide lower velocity with the same powder charge when compared with identical weight lead bulets. The only plated bullet which I have found which approaches bulleye level accuracy is the 45 cal. 200 gr. Rainier SWC.

 

[armoredman]

1 SOW, no Chrony at this time - BUT, if all goes well I should have one in a few weeks. This bullet isn't in the new catalog, will be available soon...maybe.

 

[armoredman]

And it seems to be doing well, while I get the recipe figured out. Windy cold morning.