Please help me identify a BP rifle that has been sitting in my closet for 8 years.

[mickeydim468]

About 30 or so years ago, my wife and her mom (now deceased) built this rifle from some sort of kit that her mom found. About 8 years ago, when her mom passed away, her step dad, pulled it out of the closet he had it in, and asked my wife if she remembered it? My wife about fell over in amazement that her mom had kept it all of those years. Come to find out it has never been fired. I had no clue about any kind of guns at the time as I had only fired 2 guns before. My dad's .22lr and a Crossman 760 BB gun, so we put it in a closet and it has sat there ever since. Well, over the past year or so, I have been getting into firearms as a hobby and bought some rifles and pistols and Etc... A few days ago I got to thinking about this old muzzleloader in the closet. Well, this morning I decided to pull it out of the closet and see what kind of info I can find about it, and naturally I came here to THR to see what you folks had to say about it. With it being 30 something years old and never fired, does that make it worth more than if it has been played with at the range? I would hate to ruin a collectors item or something like that due to lack of knowledge. When I took it out of the closet, I noticed that it has started to get a few small rust spots on the barrel. We moved to a coastal part of Oregon just over a year ago and I attribute the rust to the salty air. Never had rust before moving here. How can I fix this? Should I fix this? and what do I do to get started using this rifle if in fact it is not a collector item that will have a lesser value if fired? I know nothing about BP rifles. It has a stick that you load it with but that is all we have for it. It says "Jukar Spain .45 Cal" on the barrel and right below that it says "Black Powder Only" Off to the right of that near the breech it has the serial number "200928" Here is a link to some pictures. My Black Powder Rifle PicturesIf you need more picture to make identification easier, just ask! I can put more on really easily.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Mikey!

 

[Das Jaeger]

Looks like

a CVA kit to me .
It's a shooter if it is . Especaily being a family made gun , use it and enjoy it .
It has a Jaeger style Lock too by the way .

Das Jaeger

 

[mickeydim468]

What is a Jaeger style Lock mean? I see your screen name has this in it... Is that a good thing? Literally I have no knowledge on this type of rifle at all. Please be descriptive. Also, what is a CVA kit?

Thanks!

 

[Das Jaeger]

Jaeger

Here's my Jeager Lock :



Yours looks simular in design , and if its a KIT CVA , it may very well do what my lock does , and that is enable your gun to be converted to Flint Lock also . The Jeager locks are designed so you can buy the Percussion model rifle , buy the vent and such for the flintlock lock and the lock and basically drop it into the persussion gun . Being a CVA kit gun , they were made very universal in thier production and very cost effective , making the Jaeger style lock a very good possibilty then , so they can just mill one type of barrel assembly and achieve two production guns , get it ?

Conneticut Valley Ams =CVA

Don't quote "Any" of this as fact , as I am doing an educated guess here , but its what it looks like to me

Don't worry , there are plenty of smart peiople here too that will correct me if I am wrong . The Jeager locks I know as fact though , yours might be one .

Das Jaeger

 

[4v50 Gary]

Connecticut Valley Arms. Guns of that type were pretty common years ago. It had a two piece stock and hence that piece of brass that is on the forearm. It's a shooter, not a collector's item. I'd guess it's 45 caliber as most of them were.

 

[mickeydim468]

Thanks guys,

Yes it is a .45 Cal according to the markings on the barrel. Now... How do I go about shooting it? It says Black powder Only! I thought I had heard you can't get black powder without some sort of license or something? Is there an alternative? How much powder should I start off with? I handload for my rifle so I have basic knowledge of how bullets work so I understand about pouring in X amount of powder and then there is some sort of lubed cotton fabric that goes around the lead spherical ball right? Then the cap that goes on the little spigot under the hammer. Am I close?

 

[higene]

Id

The hammer and lock look like a Traditions Deer Stalker that I have.

 

[Das Jaeger]

You may want to read the

Sticky Post at the top of the headings listing for this forum to get a basic knowledge of whats going on in the BP guns , first .

Your best bet is to find a local gun club or BP group that can show you first hand the safe and right way to go about shooting these things . Have you had a Hunters Safety course yet ? Thats a good start too . Just becasue you handload doesn't mean you know how to be safe .

But yes , your close , powder , patch , round ball or conical , seat well , no air gaps , half cock hammer , percussion cap on , full cock once on target , bang . Now do that 500 times

Starting load can be anywhere from 45 gr. 3F BP , on up , but I wouldn't go over 90 gr.
Round Ball I would start with .451 and patch .

Maybe someone else will chime in that knows more than me , how about it guys and gals , anyone

And your welcome , and welcome to the Board too ! I think that's pretty neet the story behind the rifle , a Womans gun project together , pretty cool

Das Jaeger

 

[arcticap]

That's a Jukar Spanish made Kentucky rifle model that was imported by CVA about 30 - 40 years ago.
Load with a .440 round ball wrapped in a lubed .015 patch and 45 - 90 grains of black powder or black powder substitute.
FFFg or P powder granulation usually works better.
777 powder requires 15% less volume to be equivalent.
Make sure to throughly clean the bore along with the entire gun after every range session.
Those models aren't usually worth more than $150, and even less depending on condition.
If the gun misfires and a 2nd cap won't set it off, clean out the nipple hole with a pin or thin wire and recap. If that doesn't help it to fire, then remove the nipple or cleanout screw and dribble a few grains of powder into the drum under the nipple and try again.
You'll need some accessories to measure powder and to clean the long bore.
But make sure the gun is clean and free of gun oil before firing.
Bore Butter is used as a patch lube and as a bore preservative after cleaning, but Crisco or even olive oil can be used as a patch lube although not usually for storage. Any gun oil that's put in to the bore should be removed prior to firing.

 

[BHP FAN]

Arcticap nailed it,I only want to add that I have thirty five year old pictures of me proudly shooting one,the first rifle kit I'd ever built!

 

[Ginormous]

Most remarkably, it was assembled by his wife and mother in law. My kind of women!

 

[mickeydim468]

In the interim of posting and site maintenance, i surfed the net and found this link. Traditions Kentucky Long Rifle Kit This kit looks to be identical to the one I have here. The same parts Etc... Are all the KITs about the same just made by different companies?

Have you had a Hunters Safety course yet ?

I have not had a Hunters Safety course yet but have had a handgun safety course and am quite safe when handling all of my firearms. thanks for checking!

45 - 90 grains of black powder or black powder substitute.

It seems there is quite a large gap between the minimum and maximum recommended loads. I am used to having to make up loads using 1/2 Grain incriments or less to find the best load for my rifles. Do I work a load using about the same technique?

Which is better, a round ball or a bullet shaped or conical bullet?

 

[mickeydim468]

Most remarkably, it was assembled by his wife and mother in law. My kind of women!

Now you see why I married her!

 

[mykeal]

Here's mine, built from a CVA kit in 1978; still shoots very well. .440 round ball, 0.010 lubed patch and 50 to 70 grains ffg real black, 33.5" octagon barrel with a 1:48 twist:

Here's the CVA lock; I don't see the resemblance to a Jaeger lock but I'm going on memory as I don't currently own one:

CVA also marketed a companion "Kentucky" pistol, also in .45 cal:

The Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms Fifth Edition (2007) gives a 100% condition value of $235. Arcticap is correct, they are shooters, and very good ones, but not collectors. They were also available in .50 cal.

 

[mykeal]

Here's mine, built from a CVA kit in 1978; still shoots very well. .440 round ball, 0.010 lubed patch and 50 to 70 grains ffg real black, 33.5" octagon barrel with a 1:48 twist:

Here's the CVA lock; I don't see the resemblance to a Germanic Jaeger lock but I'm going on memory as I don't currently own one:

Germanic Jaeger by R.E.Davis:

CVA also marketed a companion "Kentucky" pistol, also in .45 cal:

The Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms Fifth Edition (2007) gives a 100% condition value of $235. Arcticap is correct, they are shooters, and very good ones, but not collectors. They were also available in .50 cal.

Like many 'replica' black powder products the CVA (or Jukar) Kentucky rifle is badly misnamed; no authentic Kentucky style rifle was ever produced with a two piece stock separated by a brass bushing. They were made in Spain by Jukar and marketed here by a number of companies. Yours apparently does not have a CVA logo, retaining the generic 'Jukar', but they are the same rifle nonetheless.

Congratulations on your find; it should serve you well and provide many hours of enjoyment.

 

[mickeydim468]

mykeal,

Does yours have the Jukar Spain inscription on the barrel too? that would have been when she built hers too! Right around 1978 - 79

 

[mykeal]

No, mine says Connecticut Valley Arms, but they are the same gun. CVA just imported and sold them, both factory finished and as kits.

 

[Das Jaeger]

MyKeal and BHP

Do either of you guys owne both of the Rifles they made , the Flinter and the Percussion in this Kentucky Model ?
If so, pop that lock off and see if the Flint lock will fit the Perco rifle .

Thats why I referenced the Jaeger anyways . In no way did I want to refer the CVA lock as being anywhere near as good of a lock of the Jeagers , but the CVA lock may very well transfer from gun to gun on another CVA . Heck
the Jeager Locks are darn near $200 , more than most Silers . . I certainly didn't mean it was anything near as nice as Jaeger locks , only tha tit may very well swap out , they do look simular in design where they sit onthe breech is why .

Cheerios, Das Jaeger

 

[mickeydim468]

I would really like to get one of those BP pistols in your pic to match the rifle I have. That is great! I found one on the Traditions website but it is 50 cal. i would like the same cal as the rifle so I can use the same supplies for both. Anyone know where I can find one?

 

[mykeal]

Das Jaeger - That's a very good question. I no longer own a CVA flintlock Kentucky; I found the lock to be of marginal quality and pretty unreliable compared to the percussion lock. However, to the best of my recollection the two locks will interchange easily. The problem (if any) will come with the touchhole location in the barrel. I don't believe the hole for the drum will support the flintlock; in fact, I think getting the drum out is problematic due to the breech plug threads interfering. Again, I've not done it and I no longer have a flintlock to try it out. It's interesting to think what one of these would do with a Davis flintlock (which by itself is worth almost as much as the gun).

 

[mykeal]

mickeydim468 - The CVA Kentucky pistol is no longer made; they sometimes show up on the auction sites (Gunbroker.com, etc.). Quality wise, the Traditions pistols are comparable. You can get custom kits made that will fit the bill but they will be expensive; worth quite a bit more than the rifle.

 

[BHP FAN]

I had mine for many years,but got off it about five years ago.Mine wasn't from CVA ,it was from Numrich Arms,IIRC. Just the same gun,though.Jukar,and ''made in Spain'' on the barrel.A friend of mine up in Oregon got one,and fitted it with a one piece stock,from Dixie Gun Works.

 

[Das Jaeger]

Thanks

for looking into the matter anyway MyKeal .

Jaeger out

 

[arcticap]

Removing the drum on the Jukar Kentucky is not difficult or blocked by the breech plug. IIRC it simply unscrews.

These are Jukar .45 Colonial pistols with 7 inch barrels that I'll sell if anyone is interested.

 

[mickeydim468]

I was able to get a box of round balls and some Triple 7 powder and some patches and #11 percission caps yesterday and today I took it out and shot it. BTW I also had to get a powder measure and a bullet starter too but we did. I loaded up 50Gr and tamped that and then put the lubed patch and the ball in and I got it started with the starter. I got it all tamped good and then I cocked the hammer back to the first click and tried to put the percussion cap on the nipple. it wouldn't go. The cap was too small or something. I finally worked it enough that I did get it on but then when I aimed and pulled the trigger it just went click!

So I played with the cap some more and aimed and tried again to shoot and it just went "Click!" I did it again and aimed and again it went "Click!" Finally I pulled off the cap and inspected it. It looked fine so I put it back on. This time it looked mre square than before. I took aime and it went "BOOM! Woo Hoo Sweet Jesus what a BANG! I could hardly believe my ears and eyes! I didn't hit the dead tree I was aiming at over 50 yards away, IT FIRED and the bullet flew! I saw the dirt fly behind the tree.

I figure someone dry fired this thing repeatedly and the tip of the nipple needs some work with my honing stone. Other than that, I will need to take it and sight it in. I think this thing is the neatest thing since Pac Man! I shot it 6 or 7 times butnever did hit that tree. I will have to start at closer range and see where the balls are a flyin' and adjust the sights accordingly.

How far out should this thing be accurate with round ball ammo? 50 yards? 100 yards?