Pocket Clips

[Pax Jordana]

I bought myself a SureFire E1e today.. what a lovely little thing.

But when I stuck it in my left front pocket, my range buddy remarked, "You've got a black clip for each pocket now".. I carry a kershaw blur in my right front.


Well, I love gear! So now I gotta ask -- can anybody else think of some cool tactical type stuff I can stick in my back pockets (most preferably with pocket clips!!)? -- Preferably not another knife or light.

 

[AK103K]

How about a pair of stubby Glocks with a clip draw?

 

[hso]

LCP (Lightfoot Combat Pen) from Timberline Knives.

6" of machined T6 Al intended for striking and pressure point work that is also a ball point pen.

I'm not sure when they're going to start shipping to dealers, but they should have a street retail of around $60.

 

[Pax Jordana]

Oy

20 minutes after I posted this I strapped on my Kel-Tec (with uncle mike's *black* nylon OWB) and my cell phone (in generic black craftsman holster) to go to ACME and then meet my brother. Stopped by a mirror.... Already I look like a mall ninja.



Heck, I'll throw on my baton and just be SouthNarc for halloween

 

[sm]

Just me you understand.

I am avoiding Pocket Clips.

Around me, BGs are looking for pocket clips. They have Internet and Street Smarts. They know a pocket indicates a knife, and is conveying "this person most likely has a CCW, and other guns".

BGs watch body language, how one reaches for items on a top shelf, or items on a lower shelf.
BGs "case the person" . So BGs may be in greater numbers , these BGs do carry Cell phones and communicate , even inside the store or wherever one is.
They can catch one by themselves and outnumbered .

They may choose to follow you to see if your vehicle has "Forget 911 - I dial .357" front vanity plate, NRA stickers, fake bullet holes...
They may follow you home - better to get more guns, than just a nice knife and one CCW.

BGs here watch for Photo Vests, Sure-Fire lights and other "easy to case/ read folks items".

I am a good guy and I have always read people, places, vehicles rooms and settings.
Be it reading good guys or bad guys - always have , and always will.

BGs read Handicapped license plates - big reason my mom/ close friends have a hang tag instead of handicapped plate. I explained my reason and cited the incidents (plural) and one being a Rest Stop where a couple with Handicapped plates were victims.

Attractive ladies with required parking sticker for Apt / Condo complexes - get stalked and followed to Apt / Complexes - BGs even know where these complexes are even if the name is not on the sticker, they know the logo.

Good Guys do this to recognize each other. NO I will share on Public Forum, BGs already know, just no reason to advertise to up and coming BGs in training.

Pocket Clips are fine, they do make access easy, and keep pockets from being worn out so fast.
With anything - one has to look at the whole picture for THEM and think like a Thief for THEM. Not every environment is friendly.

Just me and food for thought is all.

 

[7ranquilcitizen]

SM has a point but that is why I like the wire clips from spyderco. That and I tend to prefer to carry IWB right above the right front pocket. Easier to conceal and more accessible if sitting in a car.

 

[LaP]

Bye.

 

[TMM]

after losing knives with no clip, and being frusturated with digging unclipped knives out of my pocket, orienting them in my hand, etc, i swear by clips. i don't give a damn if someone sees it, and i wear a sportcoat often anyway, which covers all the crap on my belt. if i'm talking to someone sketchy, i casually put my thumb in my pocket - which is actually hiding the clip and making the knife accessible.

~tmm

 

[hwp]

Lots of holes and assumptions in that post SM. I spent a chunk of my life as a police officer and spent a lot of time around "BG's". I don't know where you live but your post is not representative of what is going on with crime in America.

The stuff you mentioned is more Hollywood than reality.

Seriously, why would a group of highly observant, intelligent, thugs coordinate with cellular communication over a guy in a mini mart with a spyderco knife, photo vest, and a NRA sticker?

You are giving 99.9999999% of criminals way too much credit. The last stat I heard had the average IQ of people in prison at 77. Those folks are not smart enough to do the things you imply are taking place.

As for the good guys (I guess you mean LE) being able to spot each other, well that should be easy for anyone that is looking for such. Most cops can spot an off duty cop from a mile away. Clean cut guys wearing jackets in 80 degree weather, untucked shirts at inappropriate places, men wearing normal male clothing but carrying a fanny pack, grooming, facial hair style, certain types of shoes, types of watches......etc..etc...

The stuff like recognition colors, hand signs, and other tells will remain private as these are almost always utilized by undercover officers while working under cover and they vary greatly by geographic region.

 

[sm]

hwp,

I prefer to keep my exact location private.
Mas Ayoob, Jeff White, and Preacherman, have met with me where I do reside.
These members along with Larry Ashcraft, P95Carry, Smoke_Rizen and others have met me in person.

Some know of my background and these are not to be made public either. I was in a industry that security is paramount, and for me , keeping private about some matters still is.

I will share I have assisted with LEO from local to Fed level in some matters. I am familiar with criminals from juvenile detention to federal prison.

I am in a big city. One with certain political machines that have been in place a long long time. One where "gangs" go back to the old days of known Mafia figures having an interest here and near this big city.

We have all sorts of criminals here, from the two-bit thug to the sophisticated white collar criminals.

Hollywood, or James Bond - NO!

I have been on the streets, Mean Streets with UC LEO, have spent the night in a cardboard box with the bums and vagrants and been appreciative of soup and bread a Church, Salvation Army or similar brought us.

I have stood in a interrogation room beaten, battered, broken and asked the person in custody not only how he and his Professional Thugs from out of town found me, and caused me pain and suffering, also heard him tell me again he wanted to kill me.

I have Played The Game the name "we" that did what we did , called what we did.
A very very dangerous game, where we and our families were targets of kidnapping, and other bad happenings.

Knowing the industry I was in - and my brother and sisters in this Industry being victims, I have dressed to the nines or dressed down like the lowest scum on earth to assist LEO to find these criminals.

My Mentors & Elders were men and women, from all walks of life - including LEO and Military. These Mentors and Elders stressed "Thinking out of the Box" and to "Think like a Thief".

I had friends in LEO circles that allowed to be put in a filthy , nasty cell , smelling of vomit and urine so I could listen, observe and learn from those in these cells.

I have been allowed to speak to criminals and find out how a 15 y/o and his gang broke into a National Guard Armory and steal weapons and ammunition.
I know all too well how a Rapist was caught - I was face to face with this rapist many times, and all I can say, building a case, is tough. I threw up many times after this person left the building.
Yes he was convicted, and I can say no more about that case.

I am not defending myself, nor do I care what folks thinks of me personally.
One of the things I was taught, and over and over again proved to be a real survival skill is "what perception do I give?"

I was one of a few, that did not fit the "mode" of what "we" did. I often worked solo. Bosses , Bodyguards and all called folks like me Rebels, Outlaws, Renegades...and that was because - being totally honest - I was that good at NOT giving myself away, and reading people and rooms. I listen to my gut.

Being a "decoy" is not easy. I also did this. Out of my normal circles, I would
Play The Game to attract attention of BGs, so another could safely take care of business.

I will share, I really screwed up one time. It only took a split second for it to register with me that I was in real serious danger.
A "Painter" , one in painter paints, shirt and all does NOT wear Gucci shoes.
I paid for that split second stupid mistake on my part dearly.

I will share a UC was afraid/ suspected of being made, bad deal. I walked into where he was, pretended I was drunk, cussing and accused him of messing with my woman and decked him.
Both of us tossed into LEO cars. I had to get him out.
His friends (BGs) "found out" this person [ the UC] was wanted for murder out of state and had been extradited.

Yep, I decked a LEO, not ashamed to admit it. It was the right thing to do at the time, his safety was that important, his cover staying intact - that important.

No, I am not LEO nor have I ever been. Just a regular old dumb guy, a bit over 50 years old.
I have seen the gates of hell and smelled the brimstone.


My role : is to pass forward as passed to me. All I can share is what little I know, my observations, my experiences.
To continue to learn from others, and I have a lot to learn and always will.


If only person will think about what perception they give out to the public, which means non-law-abiding folks included.

If only one person is not targeted by a pocket clip on a knife, a handicapped license plate, Employee ID not being Social Security Number, calling the alarm company back to insure, with codeword the alarm company did in fact call in a home/business alarm, had a spare lock and key for apt complex as Maintenance folks often have master keys to complexes and some young daughter is not surprised and raped coming home, if...if...

Reality is Real.

I do not personally own a TV, and when I did , I did not have cable , and the TV was used to view educational tapes, training tapes and old movies.

The only Video games I have played, are those Pediatrics played when I did volunteer work in a Pediatric hospital. Young black was dying, he knew it, and he beat me playing some race car game and basketball game.

Last movie I attended at the theatre, I think was Collateral .
I prefer Live Theatre and interaction with the actors.
I even enjoy Children's Theatre - productions done for kids, and kids are on stage.

I am no big deal, never wanted to be, still don't.

One of my biggest faults is - I care.
I do the "right things" and sometimes I pay a high price for doing so.

Rake me over the coals, shoot me, hang me on a public forum - I do not care...my only deal is...if

Just one person thinks for themselves as to what perception they give and in doing so - they do not become a victim - I have accomplished my role.

Regards,

Steve

 

[hwp]

You convinced me.

No more pocket clips.

 

[sm]

hwp,

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything - other than just thinking.

Clips - do not have be exposed to be used.

If only knife manufacturers would listen to me .

-Get rid of the stupid - idiotic- proprietary screws!!
-Put a hole for a lanyard in the knife
-WE survived a LOT of years with Flat head and Phillips and lanyards are proven.
- Clips need to be offered in something besides steel or black.
[my wardrobe is not steel and black only - is anyone else's?]
-Careful on using special knots on lanyards - another possible "give-a-way

Now...one can easily move clip to point up - point down, and maintain, tighten and most likely get a replacement screw at the local hardware store.

Now for the folks not wanting to advertise, like those in more PC work environments, the clip worn between waistband and belt "conceals" a clip.

The "wire" type does not show as much as say a "full" clip does - like on a Leek. Leek is pretty shiny steel.

Full clips that are neutral colors, or painted, say a person wears a khaki uniform , wears a clip knife between waistband and belt, wire or a khaki clip would best serve them.

Ladies. Getting pretty fed up with mfgs not paying attention to ladies and needs, wants, requests they have.

One lady I know has an extra inside pocket on her blazers put in, lining is dark blue or black. She often times carries two knives in this NO CCW as per state regs building, and her clips are wire, and/or are kept painted dark blue or black.

She can access a knife - either hand from either inside pocket of blazer.
Belly band and access through a blouse with either hand one of two knives .
Yep, my idea.

Her boots she sometimes wears, these boots have a inside pc sewn in to hold a knife by the clip, and not seen from the top, still easy to access.

Improvise Adapt Overcome.

I go back to the days when UC LEO had blue jean [denim] IWB "sheaths" sewn in jeans to carry Buck 110's
When two exact shirts / blouses were bought, and the pockets removed from one shirt/ blouse and sewn inside the other shirt/ blouse to conceal a Beretta Jetfire for an officer.

One can conceal a snub nose Six series Ruger inside a flannel shirt or canvas shirt. UC LEO do not carry the same make and model of the Dept they work for - dead give-a-way.

Just whatever you do , don't wear the Cross pens while doing UC, Chrome for uniform and gold filled for Sgts, LTs and Supers will get one pegged.
MonteBlanc fountain pens were so well known by the 'bond daddy's and the 14 yg razor blade worn on a gold chain was a dead give-a-way too - one was a UC LEO.


Aw heck, Rolex's pshaw! I was playing the game with a Patek - at least I had some couth about this deal and the lady UC wore a Patek as well

Never got made either...playing that game. Our game - look like high-rollers, into coke, stolen mdse, and get a line on who was the money man and the fence.

Personal - one of my folks got hurt real real bad, and his family too.
Pros kidnapped the guy, rode him around in his car for hours, his wife /young kids being watched by the rest of this Pro bunch.
They did not hurt the kids, they did take turns with the wife as they waited and all this played out. Forced at gunppoint, his family hostage,and he re-entered a business and opened the safes.

This is why I did what I did sometimes. I wanted to know, and learn the hows and whatnots of these people and how to take lessons learned to prevent it happening to others.

It cost me, and still does...like I said I have many faults and one is I do care.

s

 

[bad LT]

LaP

I would be very careful about who you are accusing of pulling "stuff out of a hat"

 

[LaP]

Bye

 

[hso]

the clip worn between waistband and belt "conceals" a clip

It's amazing how large a folder will fit IWB at "1 O'clock" or "11 O'clock" and how easily the clip disappears behind the belt.

Another handy tailoring job that can help you carry a clipped pocket knife is to have a small "pocket" sewn into the seam of your strong side front pocket. I have a couple of pairs of pants that came with these. They were intended to hold a pen, but work perfectly for pocket clips as well. The added bonus is that your pants pockets don't get torn up by the clip sliding over the fabric.

As to criminal IQs and their "scouting", I simply ask anyone to talk to a correctins officer about criminals and their ability to hide things, on and off body, and their skills at watching people and reading them. Most are simply violent thugs, but given training in these narrow fields and the desire to survive encounters with each other and the victem it's good to not underestimate them.

Many of us get carried away with the "romance" of carrying. We end up with the "bat belt" and pockets full of gear. Being a recovering gearaholic I know the tempation to load up with stuff (Like I should talk sitting here with 2 knives, a flashlight and Millineum Space Pen ) that marks you to the observant individual. Heck, I look people over all the time. Pocket clip = knife. Luckily here in Knoxville there's plenty of folks carrying knives clipped to the RHF pocket so mine doesn't stand out.

 

[Cromlech]

My Spyderco UK penknife is practically invisible, such is the desgin of the clip.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

Time to buy a Kel Tec...?

Actually, I'm in the same boat. I just bought an open-box special Streamlight (an LED model, I forget the model) that has a pocket clip for... some reason. I can clip the light, my Kel Tec, a knife (I have oodles) and my uber-fountain-pen and that covers four pockets.

 

[cosine]

Great posts, sm. I really enjoyed them. Every time I read your posts they get me to think.

Too bad there isn't some way to get RSS feeds of all of sm's posts, just so you don't miss any of them...

 

[steeltiger]

Don't forget the pockets without the pen loop, an incision can be made between the lining and exterior layer therefor concealing the clip.

 

[JTW Jr.]

a pocket clip on a knife just makes sense , carrying a knife loose in a pocket , especially with change or keys in the same pocket just doesn't make sense. I have taken to carrying most of my folders in a leather sheath ever since I started making leather sheaths months ago.
Had a friend who went to use his knife , couldnt get that spyderco opened as there was a penny wedged in between the blade and liners.

The part most seem to be missing is if you clip it in the waistband , it is now concealed , and many places have blade length limits on what you can / can't conceal. I know they do here in Vegas.

Black pants , black handled knife , black clip.... works for me.

I carry 3 or 4 knives daily , and I am truely amazed at the number of people I work or converse with on a daily basis that have no clue that I have at least "a" knife on my person.

Ever noticed the person who just got their concealed carry permit , you can spot em in a crowd , always fidgeting and adjusting , until it becomes 2nd nature to carry.

 

[MudCamper]

So, sm, are you saying that thugs prefer to attack somebody they assume is armed, rather than somebody they assume is not armed? That seems counter-intuitive to me.

 

[Exmasonite]

is there any legality with the pocket clip?

i've heard talk that so long as the clip is showing, the knife isn't concealed so you aren't "concealing a deadly weapon". In michigan, i have a CPL (concealed pistol license)... doesn't say anything about knives. i'd HATE to be totally ok for carrying a gun but get cited for carrying a knife...

any thoughts?

 

[MudCamper]

Re, concealed knives: It would depend on the laws in your state. In California, if it's a folder, it's legal to carry concealed. I can't speak for Michigan...

 

[Exmasonite]

boy... i'd better check those michigan laws then!! it'll be a dark day when california has LESS restrictive weapons laws than michigan. (just kidding)

 

[hso]

Examsonite,

Prepare to be shocked. Cali knife laws are less restrictive than Michigan knife laws in many respects.

In Cali you can own and carry a small switchblade. In Cali you can carry any size folder you can stuff in your pants. Can't do either in Michigan.