Polar-Grizzly hybrid killed with .303 Enfield

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That was exactly my point...the '06 has enough steam to put down "right now", as you said, any bear on earth, assuming proper loads...
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Not really. I guess it's like taking deer with a .223 - sure it will take them, but not always "right now". Take the same shot with a .308 and you won't have to track it as far.

contrary to what many believe as several people that have been there and have the scars to prove it told me...
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I'm one of those people and I have the scars to prove it. If you want to hunt the big bears with a 30.06, I'm sure it will work in most cases. However, if it doesn't, don't complain later if the guide knocks your bear down for you and spoils your 20K hunt. If you want to "stop" a big bear, then the bigger rifle gets the nod - as long as that rifle is compact and doesn't have a high powered scope mounted on it.
 
really nother arguing thread over ballistics? come on, the guy killed it with a 303, and MANY bears at that you think he wouldve rooted around those cabins with that bear if he didnt think he could stop the bear in a charge? get real
back to the topic a pizzly or grolar guess evolution is going to cause the bears to interbreed and make a new species. pretty awsome i personally think.
 
I recall watching a show on the Discovery channel about the first Grizzly/Polar bear that was shot. I don't know if it was accurate, but the guy shot the thing with an M16 in the re-enactment. IIRC, they even identified the rifle as such, but I could be dreaming that part.

-Matt
 
Polar Bears could interbreed to save their species from "global warming."
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Yep, that's one adaptive solution, heh heh.

Or they could just skip the movie and enjoy some sun. :D
 
Not really. I guess it's like taking deer with a .223 - sure it will take them, but not always "right now". Take the same shot with a .308 and you won't have to track it as far.
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One of the other things that plays in that is what angle you are firing and what it hits on the way. You wouldn't take a hind shot on a deer with a 223 but you could with a 300 win mag. If a guide has to shoot a bear running away not having the flexibility to be effective at a hind shot isn't going to make his life easier. Being able to a effect a kill shot from an angle where a smaller cartridge would only wound is a good benefit for a bigger cartridge. However taking a neck shot I doubt you would see more than marginal benefit in the larger cartridge. I don't think it is that the smaller cartridge won't work. It just doesn't equal the larger cartridges in all shooting scenarios, especially in some of the less ideal bullet placement scenarios.
 
I don't think it is that the smaller cartridge won't work. It just doesn't equal the larger cartridges in all shooting scenarios, especially in some of the less ideal bullet placement scenarios.
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And a HUGE part of being a good hunter is passing on marginal shots and being woodsman enough to get in close enough for clean shots.

I've passed on several marginal shots in my life. I took one iffy shot at a whitetail in the fall of 1986. I gutshot the buck. He didn't run very far, and I found him easily, but field dressing him was a nightmare. The .270 Winchester had liquified his guts, leaving the abdominal cavity full of "plum pudding." That was the most disgusting job I've ever had to do, and I worked in a slaughterhouse for a summer.

KR
 
Are we Bears or are we Devo?~~LOL!!~~

I belive I read about polar Bears branching off from Grizzlys as a subspecies about 130,000 years ago, and they are very closely related, geneticly.
Might be from the ice melting and the Bears commining in contact along the shores where Polar Bears are waiting for freeze up.

I live in the Arctic, and theres lots more Polar Bears onshore in the summers now, bumping into people, I hear about it all the time, so why not horny Grizz.....

The wifes Grizz was caught with a Mosin in its M-39 configuration, shooting FMJ's. I have found the the Czeck light is exceptionaly accurate, and the light ball tumbles and rips 'em up. If they encounter bones in the animal, the steel core keeps on going. For a Big Game round, FMJ's are my 'solids', prehaps that happens with the .303 Britt.

Apon disssassembly, we found she had passed the shots just below the spine completly removing the Arteries that lay along it and the gush was as good as a Heart shot for sure.
Made Boon and Crockett 'All Time'

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Like myself, that guy is a Subsistance hunter too. When you have used a rifle to make a living for 20-30 years, you can most likely place the shot where it belongs.
If you cant kill it with a 30-06 you should hide.
 
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The .303 shooting 215 gr cupro nickle solids has accounted for a multitude of elephants and other DG. In fact the last time I was in Zimbabwe this guy had just smoked a PAC buff bull with his .303 shooting 215 gr solids.

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Where people get confused on caliber and capability is when you start using the word shot placement. The difference on a big bear when using a .303 or .30-06 vs a .375 isn't how fast it's going to kill it if you shoot it in the heart or lungs. They die pretty much equally quick.

Where the difference comes in is the ability to reach the vital from off angles and that is where a .375 has it all over a .30-06 or a .303. With bears however it isn't as critical they simply aren't that heavily built. When you start moving into thick skinned huge boned DG like cape buffalo and elephant is where you really start to see the difference.

Even on a bear your shot opportunity is wider with a .338 or a .375 than .30-06. Where this becomes important is after the first shot and things didn't go as planned. It is at this point that you can comfortably take that snap shot at a bears butt as he disappears in the brush and have full confidence that after that 300 gr bullet breaks his pelvis and femoral head that it will continue through the gut past the diaphragm and into the heart lungs.

A good 06 bullet might or might not on a large bear but it shouldn't be counted on.

Of course in survival DLP situation the best rifle is the one you have in your hands at the time.
 
I don't think it is that the smaller cartridge won't work. It just doesn't equal the larger cartridges in all shooting scenarios, especially in some of the less ideal bullet placement scenarios.
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Well put.
 
If it doesn't is not because you had a 30-06 instead of a 375....
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And W. D. M. Bell used to shoot elephants with a .275 Rigby, but that doesn't make it the best choice. Any centerfire round will kill a big bear, but the bigger rounds both expand and give you through and through penetration from any angle.

I wouldn't be too concerned about hunting big bears with a 30.06, but there are better choices.
 
H&H

Very well put.

However the 220 and 240 gr. (the Woodleigh for example) 30 cal. bullets fired from a 30-06 have shown impressive penetration capabilities not that far from a .375 H&H.
On a bear (including grizzlies), as you said, is not that important, an '06 class cartridge has plenty ommph for bruins, thick skinned DG weighting thousands of pounds it's a different story....in that case you need the edge of a .375 & up...

A cheap 203 gr. SP 7,62x54R round blew up the hump (all bone and muscles) of a big brown bear leaving a fist sized hole....
 
And W. D. M. Bell used to shoot elephants with a .275 Rigby, but that doesn't make it the best choice. Any centerfire round will kill a big bear, but the bigger rounds both expand and give you through and through penetration from any angle.

I wouldn't be too concerned about hunting big bears with a 30.06, but there are better choices.
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7mm Mauser vs. Elephant is a different story than a 30-06 vs. Grizzly....:rolleyes:
 
"I wouldn't be too concerned about hunting big bears with a 30.06, but there are better choices."

I can agree with you simply because a bit more,(though not alot), of power and weight cannot hurt, but there is a "Sweet Spot" that the 30-06 range of power and size of cartridge has, and bullet weights along with a decent weight of rifle to both carry and shoot comfortably.
Kind of like an apex of materials meeting tecnologie meeting human condition.
I can carry 10lbs all day, kill to 300 yards with fair certainty with a weapon that can put hole deep and wide through all I cross tracks with. Using Full Metal Jackets with steel cored ammo assures deep bonebreaking wounds that drain 'em quick. Putting two holes in an animal with each bullet makes for great bleeding and drainage.

If I could shoot alot of .338 , ocould do it accurately and comfortably and be able to purchase very consistant ammunition for it by the case, have the rifle for under 200$, and trust it .......as I do my Mosin,......... I would have it.
 
.....but there is a "Sweet Spot" that the 30-06 range of power and size of cartridge has.....
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......and the 220 gr. & 240 gr. 30 cal. bullets have significant higher SD than a 300 gr. 375 bullet....
 
We should all keep in mind that this was an Inuit hunter, this isn't sport or profession for him, it IS his life. This is how he feeds himself and his family and his whole community for that matter. I've been up to the Arctic in the NWT several times and .303s and .308s are most common. The effectiveness of the .303 in war time applications (used for hunting men) are a far cry from it's effectiveness on the largest land carnivours in North America.

Just a little tidbit, Polar Bears are classified as Marine Mamals (like whales) because most of their lives are spent out on the ice over the open sea.
 
That looks like a straight milsurp WW II Enfield, as used by British, Canadian and other British Empire forces.

They flooded used gun stores in Canada during the 50's and 60's.

My first moose / black bear rifle was exactly like the one pictured-cost $10.00in 1965 (I was a student) and counted for much dead meat. Later graduated to a Win 94 in .32 Spl. That worked great too.

Those Enfields were cheap, rugged, and worked fine for a hunter who could get close and shoot well (and Inuit can sure do both).

If you can't, all the firepower in the world may not do the job for you.

(I don't know a thing about big (brown, grizzly) bears, but there aren't many of those where I was stationed).
 
Caribou, WOW! that is an impressive kill with that M-39 and ball ammo. I used to disparage Mosin-nagants, but today I can see, they are a no nonsense, functioning, tough killing machine. I read in Russia, Siberia to be exact, that many, many hunters use them exclusively for all big game with no complaints. Siberia today is like our old Northwest of the 1920s, little infrastructure, many isolated cabins with families, and subsistence hunters with limited resources. That Finn model 39 with even the slightest care would seem to last a hundred years, simply amazing! How much more I would rather have it, than most of the junk that passes today for "quality firearms" Rem 770 being a case in point.
 
The effectiveness of the .303 in war time applications (used for hunting men) are a far cry from it's effectiveness on the largest land carnivours in North America.
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Yes battle rifle cartridges were designed to kill men.......and to be effective at well over 1000 yards.....
 
I can agree with you simply because a bit more,(though not alot), of power and weight cannot hurt, but there is a "Sweet Spot" that the 30-06 range of power and size of cartridge has, and bullet weights along with a decent weight of rifle to both carry and shoot comfortably.
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I use a .350 Remington Magnum in these parts. It's not really a "Magnum" since it only holds slightly more powder than a 30.06, and fits in a short action rifle. More importantly, that extra bullet diameter opens up a whole new world of bullet weights from 180 to 300 grains. It's comforting, you know?
Down here in the banana belt it's thick brush - alders, chest high grass, spruce and about one browny per square mile. When you hunt deer, you see bears every day, often at very close range. I stalked to within 10 yards of a big browny back in 99 and got badly mauled for my trouble.
I suspect even a very experienced hunter like yourself would step up in caliber if you lived here. One of the aspects that I can never get across to people is the value of open sights or a low power variable scope that dials down to 1X. I'd rather have an iron sighted .303 than a .458 with a 3x9 scope on it. A high power scope leaves you blind at the ranges where it really counts. People can't seem to absorb that the package is just as important (if not more) than the ballistics when you must deal with bears at close range.

None of that is really pertinent where you live, but people need to keep that in mind. The best choice of rifle depends as much on where you hunt, as what you hunt.
 
"Monster Quest" did a thing on big bears and they documented the other griz/polar cross shot by an Inuit in Alaska with a .223. Yep, a .223, 5.56mm NATO. It was multiple shots on full auto from an older M16 as they depicted it. :D

I do take these discovery channel shows with a grain of salt, though. :rolleyes:
 
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