Police Body-cam video - Nashville

[D.B. Cooper]

we all have ideas that we would rush in there… but in reality of the moment … I would be scared out of my mind. Not saying I won’t, but I would be scared

Nobody knows what they would do until they have to do it. Even those who have done it before. The best that one can hope for is to default to their training (which was hopefully good training) and the subsequent muscle memory.

The guy who taught my Pistol 250 class was in an officer involved shooting. He said all he knows is that a gun magically appeared in his hand and it had already been fired.

 

[shafter]

Unless one has been shot at they have no idea what they will actually do. It's all guesses and good intentions up until then.

To my knowledge this is the first time a shooter has breached a locked door by taking out the glass with gunfire.

 

[Beck]

Really? Fourteen minutes? Did the Uvalde incident so thoroughly diminish our expectations of law enforcement?

It's my understanding that it was 14 minutes from when the call came in to when the threat was eliminated. There's a lot we don't know. The details of this incident are still unfolding. Nashville is a big town. We don't yet know how far the officers had to travel and what obstacles they may have encountered on the way. Let's show respect to them for a job well done... they put their lives on the line.

True, not everyone who takes an oath, straps on a sidearm and dons body armor knows what they're going to do in a situation like this. But I do, and plenty of LEOS that I knew and worked with knew what they would do. Some of us are hard wired to run toward the threat to take it out and some people are not, regardless of training.

And speaking of Uvalde again, there were officers that wanted to go in, but were prohibited by their superiors.

 

[Skribs]

Worth a mention here, people constantly fuss about the militarization of the police force, and what we saw in that video was very much a military type building clearing. The days of sending flocks of halftrained good ol boys are gone which leads to organized operation and safer response by PD personnel. I don’t necessarily agree with waiting to group up and go but that’s part of it. A lot can happen in 30 seconds of grouping and going, and that’s a lot of time for the shooter to keep shooting, but somehow it seems to not make much difference. I guess because 5 minutes after the first shots everybody is either hiding, evacuated, or injured.

I think there are generally two types of people. Some believe that you must do everything you can to save everyone. Others believe you must do everything you can to save yourself and your loved ones. The funny thing is that when it's yourself or your loved ones that are threatened, everyone is in the second group.

It's like that reporter 10 years ago now, who decided to take a police use-of-force class. What he found is that even in a controlled environment, it's incredibly tense and it's very difficult to make the correct call. When it's you that's in trouble, it's a lot different than what you think you would do if you were in the situation you read about in the newspaper.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Nobody knows what they would do until they have to do it. Even those who have done it before. The best that one can hope for is to default to their training (which was hopefully good training) and the subsequent muscle memory.

The guy who taught my Pistol 250 class was in an officer involved shooting. He said all he knows is that a gun magically appeared in his hand and it had already been fired.

I need more training, all I have is USPSA matches but those targets don’t shoot back.

Mid-Year resolution, get some tactical training

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Former public school teacher here. If you think public schools are underfunded then you would be simply amazed at the sort of shoestring budgets private schools deal with. I think the average Christian school couldn’t possibly find the money to pay someone.

Add to that the fact that most school buildings built before the new century weren’t designed with security in mind. A locked door is meaningless when there’s a big sheet of glass right beside it. School security and preventing intruders simply weren’t design criteria in most districts until the post-Columbine era.

I can't imagine there's any public support to actually improve things, either. In the US, NFL quarterbacks make $30 million per year while public schoolteachers make $30 thousand per year. And most schools would collapse if the individual teacher didn't pump 5% or more of their own salaries back into the school by purchasing their own supplies. In a world where military veterans can wear "Taxation is Theft" T-shirts without a trace of irony, who is going to vote to raise taxes even a penny? Especially given the contempt shown to education in general in this country. Ultimately no matter where the blame is laid for these shootings, everyone agrees that we can't do anything about it and must avoid trying at all costs. Any price for the safety of our children, in all honesty, is more than the citizens of the USA are willing to pay.

 

[damyankee425]

We didn't seem to have a lot of this back when you could buy a gun through the mail. Guns were deeply ingrained in our culture. That's not what changed. Television? The Internet? Letting the inmates out of the asylums?

Hardening schools like we do airports and stadiums will stop people who aren't determined. But a lot of those kind of people are determined. It WILL happen sometimes, and it WILL make the news.

Agree, fire arms have in our culture. Never heard of all these shootings when I was growing up.

 

[rabid wombat]

To my knowledge this is the first time a shooter has breached a locked door by taking out the glass with gunfire.

I believe Sandy Hook was breached by shooting and going through the glass…

 

[Duster340]

I appreciate the whole "we gotta harden the schools like military bases to defend our kids," But is hard to fathom why we aren't questioning why we are the only civilized nation that experiences regular school/mass shootings. Seems we normalize it and throw "thoughts and prayers". I've loved hunting and shooting sports for nearly 60 years. But I don't think more guns and less required training for permitteless carry are the solution. Understand I'm in the minority here, and probably gonna garner some flaming and negative responses. Just another gun owner's opinion.

Be well all

 

[Robert]

The problem is not a gun problem. It is a mental health problem, and while it is a major problem, plumbing the depths of the mental health crisis is not on topic for THR.

 

[redcon1]

I appreciate the whole "we gotta harden the schools like military bases to defend our kids," But is hard to fathom why we aren't questioning why we are the only civilized nation that experiences regular school/mass shootings. Seems we normalize it and throw "thoughts and prayers". I've loved hunting and shooting sports for nearly 60 years. But I don't think more guns and less required training for permitteless carry are the solution. Understand I'm in the minority here, and probably gonna garner some flaming and negative responses. Just another gun owner's opinion.

Be well all

For starters, we aren't like other so called civilized nations. We're more like Mexico than, for example, Japan, Norway or Sweden. We have a huge criminal underclass problem in America i.e. a gang problem. We also have way more freedom than those other countries and that freedom can be used against us. I'm not willing to sacrifice an iota of my individual liberty because of the actions of gang members or deranged terrorist trannies however and most certainly not my RKBA.

 

[Mark_Mark]

The problem is not a gun problem. It is a mental health problem, and while it is a major problem, plumbing the depths of the mental health crisis is not on topic for THR.

it’s a Gun Problem! no guns are being used to protect our children. Teachers should have the right to carry in schools! just like any law abiding citizens on the streets

 

[redcon1]

it’s a Gun Problem! no guns are being used to protect our children. Teachers should have the right to carry in schools! just like any law abiding citizens on the streets

Maybe every city needs to have multiple quick reaction forces on standby 24 hrs a day with orders to shoot to kill. It's bull that they take these dirtbags in alive. They should never be taken alive. They should be shot like rabid dogs and on camera so other would be school shooters can see what's going to happen to them if they decide to do something like this. There should be a tax free hundred thousand dollar bounty paid out to whoever makes the kill shot in fact and there should be a federal guarantee that there will be immunity from prosecution or any other punitive measures of any kind.

 

[21H40]

I need more training, all I have is USPSA matches but those targets don’t shoot back.

Mid-Year resolution, get some tactical training

I don't think I would recommend training with targets that shoot back.

Being shot AT was exciting and motivating. I was never hit, but I've been told that being shot is much less energizing.

As for running into danger, I think it comes from practicing a life of integrity and small acts of courage. The scarier part, IMO, is heading into the unknown. Not knowing how many shooters, if there are bombs, how many floors or rooms to clear are enough to keep the thinking side busy while the rest of your heart and brain work on getting the work done.

 

[Duster340]

Yeah. I get it. We're on a gun forum, and understand the guns over all else and our country is a war zone, living in fear of bad guys and "they're" coming for our guns" mind set of some folks. I don't agree with it, but respect the opinions.

 

[d31tc]

I watched the body cam footage. The two police officers seemed to drive the situation. People will naturally hesitate in these situations. Nobody wants to get shot. It shows the difference a couple of hard chargers can make in a desperate situation. God bless them and in a time when hero is thrown about indiscriminately, those officers truly earned that status.

Exactly. "LET'S GO!" "WITH ME!" "GO! GO! GO!" was heard a lot. Hands on, pushing, I'm guessing to let the person in the lead know there was someone behind them. All reinforcing action. No hesitation, and when someone paused..."GO! GO! GO!" Truly amazing. There were some officers they were passing moving a little slower, but they all appeared to be moving to the shooter.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Maybe every city needs to have multiple quick reaction forces on standby 24 hrs a day with orders to shoot to kill. It's bull that they take these dirtbags in alive. They should never be taken alive. They should be shot like rabid dogs and on camera so other would be school shooters can see what's going to happen to them if they decide to do something like this. There should be a tax free hundred thousand dollar bounty paid out to whoever makes the kill shot in fact and there should be a federal guarantee that there will be immunity from prosecution or any other punitive measures of any kind.

I’m with you! Idaho just brought back Death penalty by firing squad. Make it public! Rule of law is nothing with punishment for crimes

 

[redcon1]

Idaho just brought back Death penalty by firing squad.

I saw that. It should be public like it used to be too. But really, it's a shame that someone who earned the death penalty should even survive long enough to stand in front of the squad. They need to quit arresting these animals. Just kill them immediately. No judges, no lawyers, no juries, no liberal DAs. Just kill them. And if their rights to due process are too important for that, than I don't want to hear anything about my RKBA.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I saw that. It should be public like it used to be too. But really, it's a shame that someone who earned the death penalty should even survive long enough to stand in front of the squad. They need to quit arresting these animals. Just kill them immediately. No judges, no lawyers, no juries, no liberal DAs. Just kill them. And if their rights to due process are too important for that, than I don't want to hear anything about my RKBA.

No… Everyone must have there days in court. And appeal’s. That’s just the right thing to do.

 

[shafter]

Arming teachers isn't the answer. For one it would be sporadic as the majority wouldn't arm themselves. Furthermore, if an armed teacher hears gunfire down the hall are they going to abandon their students and go to the rescue of others or stay put?

What level of training will parents demand before allowing a teacher to be able to retain their gun from a combative student and also to be able to shoot effectively under stress in an environment with lots of innocent children in the line of fire?

What happens when a teacher goes off the deep end and shoots up their students? That will be the end of armed teachers.

I see the only likely scenario to be hardening of schools and professional security but that's only going to go so far.

My opinion is that the only way to protect your child is to protect them yourself. Keep them home.

 

[shafter]

I saw that. It should be public like it used to be too. But really, it's a shame that someone who earned the death penalty should even survive long enough to stand in front of the squad. They need to quit arresting these animals. Just kill them immediately. No judges, no lawyers, no juries, no liberal DAs. Just kill them. And if their rights to due process are too important for that, than I don't want to hear anything about my RKBA.

The same bill of rights that protects your rights to keep and bear arms also guarantees due process to ALL people.

 

[redcon1]

No… Everyone must have there days in court. And appeal’s. That’s just the right thing to do.

Well, if their rights to due process are utterly inviolate, so too is my right to keep and bear arms. That's all I'm saying.

 

[TomJ]

"they're" coming for our guns" mind set of some folks. I don't agree with it, but respect the opinions.

Yesterday Randi Weingarten, the head of the American federation of Teachers called for a gun ban. In the past the anti's wouldn't admit this was their goal but as of late have been very open about wanting to do away with the 2A. Her saying this was just the latest example. I guess some people live in fear, etc., and I agree that's no way to live, but it's hard to make the argument that "they" aren't coming for our guns when "they" tell us in no uncertain terms that's their goal.

 

[redcon1]

The same bill of rights that protects your rights to keep and bear arms also guarantees due process to ALL people.

They took Dylan Roof to burger king after he shot up that black church because of his rights. he never should have made it out of the church let alone made it to BK. But, again, if their rights to due process are this inviolate, don't you dare ask me to sacrifice my right to keep and bear arms.

 

[Robert]

Well this went about as well as I expected it to go. We are not going to entertain the calling for shooting people in the streets. No matter what they have been accused of. THR is not that site. We respect the rule of law and will advocate, through legal means, against any law that infringes upon our rights.

THR is a gun rights forum, any gun law is an infringement upon those rights. THR is not for everyone, that's okay. There are plenty of sites out there where you can have your opinion echoed and your ego stroked until you are happy.