Police Search Prompted by Electricity Use

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I'll chime in and say that I also recall a case where the final ruling said that the cops couldn't use thermal imaging systems as the basis for getting a warrant. Cops contended that they were on the public street when they used the systems, therefore the grow lamps were in "plain view." Judge said that plain view meant visible to the human eye.

Aerial surveillance is allowed, provided the aircraft is above a certain height, (1000' AGL, IIRC) in what is considered "public airspace." This comes from a SCOTUS case (the name escapes me) involving a guy who built a huge wall around his property so his pot farm couldn't be seen from the street. Cops went up in a plane and took pictures. Sheriff flying over rural areas are probably looking for pot farms either in the woods or hidden in the center of a cornfield.
 
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Hey! artherd....

...I love that pot growing oven disquised as a computer. What will they think of next!?

Just jokin'!

The Barneys in the burg I was born in staged a raid on a college girl's apartment one time about 30 years ago. Her hobby was collecting and drinking all sorts of teas. There must be a thousand varieties. She had them in identical glass jars and all tagged and everything. You can imagine what happened.

I do smell a great lawsuit in this case. If these t*rds can't be forced back on track by suing the hell out of them everytime they get off track, then we're looking at the 1776 solution as the only way the people can win the "war on liberty." [I like that] I would rather beat back the growing tyranny in the courts and the press and the schools [pauses to chuckle and then barf] but it's getting more and more apparent that this won't work.

rr
 
(4v50 Gary) Now, if the bill was only $50 and then jumped up to $300 without any extra kids and then a new car, new clothes, more eating out and higher lifestyle with no viable means of paying, that should trigger an investigation.
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So, umm...you're in favor of the cops spying into our electric bills? :uhoh:

MR
 
mercedesrules, what's private about a utility bill?

Reloader, if all but one of the 3/2/2 houses in a neighborhood are running $300 a month for electricity, and that one is $600 or $1,000 or whatever, why wouldn't somebody be curious about what's going on?

I'm more in favor of some discreet "snooping", rather than rushing off to get a warrant, but at least the Carlsbad cops were polite and didn't do the midnight marauder thing.

Art
 
(Art Eatman) mercedesrules, what's private about a utility bill?
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I don't know if you are asking a "legal" question, but in a free country there is no reason that economic transactions between me and some other person should be state-monitored. One's use of electricity harms no one and should be private no matter what some "law" says. Would you say the same thing about your alcoholic beverage or birth-control expenditures? Do you want faceless bureaucrats armed with such intimate knowledge? I certainly don't.

Reloader, if all but one of the 3/2/2 houses in a neighborhood are running $300 a month for electricity, and that one is $600 or $1,000 or whatever, why wouldn't somebody be curious about what's going on?
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Umm...because they believe in liberty? :rolleyes: Jeez, Art, do you really want this level of government monitoring?

I'm more in favor of some discreet "snooping", rather than rushing off to get a warrant, but at least the Carlsbad cops were polite and didn't do the midnight marauder thing.
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How nice of them :mad: Do you really want to live in a society where "discreet snooping" is the norm? I'm frankly shocked that anyone on this board, much less a moderator, is so authoritarian.

MR
 
The point is that it is NONE of their business what anyones electric bill is. That information should be PRIVATE. The mere fact that the info is so easy for a LE officer to get shows that there is a problem. If I want to replace every lamp in MY home with 1000 watt HPS lights that should be my friggin business and no one elses.
 
Merc, I'm with you on this. They should first need probable cause, and then ask for and receive a warrent before they are allowed to snoop into anyone's business transaction records. Fishing expiditions are a characteristic of police states, and most Americans don't want to live in a police state.
 
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.....and most Americans don't want to live in a police state.
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Too late.

rr
 
Too late.
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Do you mean to say we are already in a police state, or that too many people already want to live in one? I only meant that, regardless of whether we live in one currently or not, most people would rather not live in a police state, as a general principle. I agree that our society is quickly transforming into one around us, and that too many people seem apathetic about it. Sort of reminds one of the Invasion of the Body Snatchers. You can't tell who the real Americans are anymore, and you wonder if you are one of the only ones left.
 
Reloader, if all but one of the 3/2/2 houses in a neighborhood are running $300 a month for electricity, and that one is $600 or $1,000 or whatever, why wouldn't somebody be curious about what's going on?
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What do surrounding houses have to do with anything? I can see mansions using more electricity than apartments due to more lights and air conditioning load. For the most part, houses do not use electricity, people do.
 
Reloader, if all but one of the 3/2/2 houses in a neighborhood are running $300 a month for electricity, and that one is $600 or $1,000 or whatever, why wouldn't somebody be curious about what's going on?
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Because its none of their damn business. Period.

Why must those who are different than the crowd be assumed to be doing illegal activities that the busy bodies of the world have to investigate?

Those who think like the above quote, take one step to the far left, insert arm in the air, click heals and say .........Sig Hillary!
 
So now I 'm wondering when the raid on my friend's house is going to take place.

They use around $1200 per month in electricity which is around 20X what their neighbors use.
They have 10 -12 strange cars comming and going in the evening hours folks usually stay about one hour.

If their house was checked from the air it would light up on an IR sensor big time, so they must be growing POT right??????


WRONG SHE RUNS Pottery classes, and makes pottery for a living, she has two large electric KILNS in her garrage and a couple of small ones as well.

I guess I better warn them to expect a no knock raid any day now.:barf:
 
This won't make anyone feel any better, but... in Escondido (a few miles inland from Carlsbad, both of which are ~30 miles north of San Diego), several pot farms in industrial areas have been busted. How? By the water bills, or illegal connections to city water supplies. I think they may have used electricity as a basis for the busts, too. But the water billing is handled by the City, which is how they were able to get that info.

Seems like there must be an agreement with SDG&E/Sempra to report "suspicious" electrical usage to the police, as how else would the cops ever see the usage? Unless something else already had them looking at a given house.

Frankly, though, I was surprised by this. A $300 electrical bill isn't out of line at all in SoCal... in my little condo, I routinely see $100 bills, and I try to be careful to turn things off when I'm not using them.
 
:what:

California electric bills run about 40% higher (being nice) to 100% higher (realistic) than the rest of the country (thanks to the electicity crisis and "long term" "advantagious" "contracts" signed at the peak price by Gray "Poker-Face" Davis). The size of the electric bill ($300) is a non-starter.

Trash on the curb on trash day. :rolleyes: What next, a lawnmower on lawn day?

Who was snooping at the electric bill and under what authority? There seems to be a "procedure" in place for this. Very scary. Last I checked, utilities are a private business. But that does not really matter. Even if the electricity was billed by the city, there seems to be a privacy breech.

Most ar right: If they can justify monitoring electric bills, then are gun sales or ammo sales far behind?

Tinfoil hat on. Was there not a mention of eliciting "help" from utility workers, postal, trash dudes as a million snitches for the war on terror? I do not recall the specifics, but what ever happened to that?
 
the real hawkeye

I was being slightly fazit...er, ah...fassetiu.....damn. I can't spell facetious anymore. But we have slid a long way into the police state situation. And I know tons of folks around the colleges up here, one of which I taught in 15 years, who just do not get alarmed at the prospects of a police state. They have the idiotic idea that since they want it and are working for it that when it settles in permanently they will be rewarded for their undying efforts to that end. I point out that they'll get the same reward Ernst Rhome got for helping Hitler that time long ago.

That makes me a radical gun nut though I haven't fired such in probably 35 years.

rr
 
I also do not think $300 is a lot, I know a lot of computer nerds who use a lot more.
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That's the really bizzare part of the story - since former Gov. Davis caused the energy crisis in CA, they've been running newspaper stories about college students paying $250-$300 electric bills.

It's really hard to believe that any rational judge would see that and not wonder what sort of drugs the officers were taking.

Dex }:>=-
 
mercedes rules - in response to your inquiry, no. None of us expect Dudley Dooright to sit at the billing department of a utility company and redflag bills that are high. For instance, nonpayment for several months and penalties could pop a regular $50 monthly bill to $300 if left unattended (and the power company neglects to shut off the juice). But if it is one of several leads that is highly suggestive of illegal activity such that the totality of circumstances would lead a reasonable officer (and not the over-eager stormtrooper) to have probable cause, then a warranted search is merited (did I just do a run on?).
 
And if they were caught growing pot...this would be considered a success story? :barf: :barf: Jeeeeezis...wouldn't most people agree that the law enforcement community has better things they could be doing these days?
How about facilitating the movement of the godawfull traffic for a change?
 
Reloader, if all but one of the 3/2/2 houses in a neighborhood are running $300 a month for electricity, and that one is $600 or $1,000 or whatever, why wouldn't somebody be curious about what's going on?
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Curiosity is NOT probable cause. Suspicion is not probable cause.


And we have way too many warrants being issued on flimsy 'evidence' back up by anonymous informants.
 
(4v50 Gary) But if it is one of several leads that is highly suggestive of illegal activity such that the totality of circumstances would lead a reasonable officer (and not the over-eager stormtrooper) to have probable cause, then a warranted search is merited
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As you might have guessed, I'm strongly against the "war on drugs". Therefore, I don't recognize any need to enter or search someone's private property unless there is a complaining, injured victim of theft (or some other real crime) and there is probable cause that his stolen goods (or his attacker) are at the target property.

MR
 
I point out that they'll get the same reward Ernst Rhome got for helping Hitler that time long ago.
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To which most public educated folk will respond; "Ernst who!"
:rolleyes: :banghead: :( or :fire: I can't make up my mind


But if it is one of several leads that is highly suggestive of illegal activity such that the totality of circumstances would lead a reasonable officer (and not the over-eager stormtrooper) to have probable cause, then a warranted search is merited
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I could agree with using a "suspicious" electric usage to be used as additional evidence to get a search warrant ... but that would be in addition to an undercover officer arranging to buy pot from the suspects or something equally damning ... not this "profiling" crap.

Although I must admit, mercedesrules has the right idea ... lets can this stupid drug "war" before any more get hurt.
 
Curiosity is NOT probable cause. Suspicion is not probable cause.


And we have way too many warrants being issued on flimsy 'evidence' back up by anonymous informants.
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Great point.

I could agree with using a "suspicious" electric usage to be used as additional evidence to get a search warrant ... but that would be in addition to an undercover officer arranging to buy pot from the suspects or something equally damning ... not this "profiling" crap.

Although I must admit, mercedesrules has the right idea ... lets can this stupid drug "war" before any more get hurt.
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Another great point. Prohibition doesn't work in a free society. Inevitably the society becomes a police state as the power of the police and the state are for ever increased, step by step, without end, in an effort to finally win a war that cannot be won without having the kind of society that no one wants to live in. :fire:
 
Mercedes Rules - I'm to a point where I think we should admit defeat on the so called War on Drugs and legalize it. In fact, about two decades ago I advocated free drugs in jails/prisons so long as there's no liability for inmates/convicts overdosing themselves. My lasting concern about illicit drug production isn't so much the health issue (quality control) but that of tax evasion.
 
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