POLL: Remington 870 HD - Which 'ready' condition?

[brentfoto]

POLL: Remington 870 - Which 'ready' condition?

I have a Remington 870 as primary for home defense.

It can presently hold only four in the magazine and one in the chamber (standard version).

Do note that if shotgun is with hammer 'cocked' with no round in the chamber one must press and hold the Action Bar Lock in order to safely pump the slide and cycle the action for the first round (there's another way it can be done that is not recommended, but I don't want to sidetrack my own thread!).

Anyway, assume the 870 is about 6 foot distance away from reach.

What is the best 'ready' condition to have it in and why?

'Best' is defined to mean the very best condition for tactical combat without a serious compromise in safety. Take it from there.

TRY CHOICES USING LIVE ROUNDS AT YOUR OWN RISK; IT'S VERY DANGEROUS. RECOMMEND USE SNAP CAPS ONLY IF GOING TO TRY ANY OF THESE CHOICES!

 

[brentfoto]

b. thomas-

So, correct me if I am wrong:

Given your vote, you have to do three things before you can fire your shotgun:

1. Press action bar lock;
2. Pump slide while holding action bar lock;
3. disengage safety.

Why is this method the best, b. thomas? It seems like 'a lot' to do.

And subsequent shots you do not press the action bar lock. hhhmmm.... could be confusing to some... I don't know...

 

[Regolith]

Why is this method the best, b. thomas? It seems like 'a lot' to do.

Because it's the "safest" condition. Might not be the most "tactical," however,

Full magazine, no round in chamber, safety ON, trigger tripped makes it so you don't have to engage the action bar, but you have to pull the trigger on a shotgun that has live rounds in its magazine. Granted, you can (should?) triple check the chamber before doing this, but it's not something I feel comfortable doing in my apartment. Only time I dry fire my gun is when it is completely empty of all live ammo and there is none in the room with me, because I'm a bit paranoid about that. YMMV.

Having the safety off or on doesn't matter, IMO, one way or another. I leave mine on, but that's just a matter of habit. It can be disengaged at the same time the action bar lock is being pressed.

I'm also not a big fan of leaving a round in the chamber. If there is a round in the chamber, the safety is ON. Always. Doesn't come off until the gun needs to be used. Lots of things in a house to snag a trigger if you're not careful.

As I mentioned before, I live in an apartment, so I tend to be super paranoid about ND's, which changes my circumstances. Others may have different circumstances and hence may choose to store their gun differently.

 

[brentfoto]

Regolith-

Thank you for your vote and your comments.

So 'best' means 'safest' in your view?

It's possible to trip the trigger first, though, before loading the magazine.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Here, the 'house guns' (Remington 870s) are all in the same condition-

-magazines loaded one round short with 00 buckshot

-Sidesaddles loaded with Brenneke KO slugs

-chamber empty, hammer cocked and action locked, safety on

The idea is that if you happen to need a slug first up, it's easy to slip one out of the Sidesaddle into the magazine and chamber it by running the bolt. If buckshot is called for, just run the bolt. It's easier to get rounds into the magazine of an 870 when the action is locked, and safer in our opinion to keep the chamber empty except when action stations are called.

TRAINING and PRACTICE make what might seem complicated simple, and speed up the process as well. "Load one shoot one" drills are especially effective in this regard. No matter what the condition of the gun, the condition (skillset) of the operator is vastly more important.

YMMV on all of the above of course...

lpl/nc

 

[waterhouse]

Mine are "cruiser ready," (option 3 in the poll) mainly because this is how I learned when younger, drilled with and practiced in law enforcement, and I'm comfortable with it.

Rack the slide and go. This has nothing to do with the action making noise to scare someone off.

 

[flip180]

I'd go with the mag loaded one round down, chamber empty with safety off.

Flip.

 

[whistler]

Only time I dry fire my gun is when it is completely empty of all live ammo

you can put the hammer down then load the mag.

 

[brentfoto]

Lee Lapin Here, the 'house guns' (Remington 870s) are all in the same condition-

-magazines loaded one round short with 00 buckshot

-Sidesaddles loaded with Brenneke KO slugs

-chamber empty, hammer cocked and action locked, safety on

The idea is that if you happen to need a slug first up, it's easy to slip one out of the Sidesaddle into the magazine and chamber it by running the bolt. If buckshot is called for, just run the bolt. It's easier to get rounds into the magazine of an 870 when the action is locked, and safer in our opinion to keep the chamber empty except when action stations are called.

TRAINING and PRACTICE make what might seem complicated simple, and speed up the process as well. "Load one shoot one" drills are especially effective in this regard. No matter what the condition of the gun, the condition (skillset) of the operator is vastly more important.

YMMV on all of the above of course...

...

flip180 I'd go with the mag loaded one round down, chamber empty with safety off.

Flip.

In a home defense situation, why would anyone, especially at nighttime, load mag one round down?

That limits you to 3 out of 5 possible shots, unless you have the presence of mind (and can stop "shaking" enough) to load a slug in the magazine just as you're picking up the weapon. This coupled with all the things one must do otherwise, would be a bit much, don't you think?

 

[average_shooter]

...why would anyone, especially at nighttime, load mag one round down?

That limits you to 3 out of 5 possible shots...

If it is the actual 870 HD version of the shotgun we're talking about then the mag holds six total. One round down means 5 in the mag, which wouldn't be too limiting. Also, like Lee said, the "1 round down" method leaves room to make the first round fired something other than what is presently loaded. Or not, depending on the situation.

 

[brentfoto]

Sorry, I used the HD abbreviation to describe a Home Defense situation and not a model number.

Assume facts as given in the OP remarks, #1, above. Four (4) rounds in mag + one (1) as five (5) maximum.

 

[caltek1911]

I load 5 in the mag, 1 in the chamber, and a full side saddle of 00 buck. I live in an apt so I don't think slugs are a good idea for me.

 

[brentfoto]

caltek1911-

With one in the chamber and the mag full, is the safety ON or OFF for you?

I don't see why you did not vote for either first or second alternative in the poll, given what you have written.

 

[brentfoto]

Look here for a post by Glenn Bartley in a somewhat related thread. You may find some of this off-topic but I think it may be somewhat relevant to the poll.

The guy cites his experience as 28 years in LE:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4252508#post4252508

Glenn Bartley Quote:
Just imagine carrying a Remington 12 gauge in your vehicle: safety on or off, slide/bolt forward, on an empty chamber, trigger has been pulled, four in the tube. If you know your Remington 870s, tell me is this safe in your opinion. Not in my personal opinion, but this is how some people have decided is the correct way to carry an 870 in a vehicle. It would be quite easy for soemthing to knock the slide back and forward again, such as a faulty shotgun carrier in a vehicle traveling on a very bumpy road, and easier still to fire the shotgun because as you should know, the Remington 870 (at least older models) do not need to have the trigger pulled to make them fire. Yet someone, in their infinite wisdom, has chosen this as the preferred method of carry in a vehicle in a law enforcement agency. Even if a round were not soemhow chambered, just the slide coming open means that when you pick up the 870, it is very likely you would inadvertatly chamber a round in the heat of the moment in which you might need the weapon. Scary, isn't it. But yet law enforcement officers are trained in such unsafe methods, and they are trained that such is safe. So how would an officer who followed such policy, one that he was instructed was the safe way to carry, be negligent if there was an unintended discharge of such a weapon that was caused by this type of policy in combination with a bumpy road and possibly faulty carrier? My bet is though, if you heard of some officer carrying like that, many of you would condemn the officer, as you just did the other officer, without knowing the facts. Sure someone is probably wrong, and while it may be the officer, it also may not be the officer, or it could just simply be a malfunction that caused the discharge

 

[brentfoto]

Thus far, 30 people have responded to the poll, with an apparent wide divergence of opinions. I think it a good exercise.

I'm personally trying to sort out and separate emotional response to a ND or AD from logical way to have it.

It seems the consequences of a discharge are so devastatingly fatal - should that enter into the equation, or not?

Otherwise, why should it not be just like a pistol with round in the chamber, with safety on (or off)?

Why avoid chambering a round (and hence, 'losing' a round)?

Seems ALL the cops are ordered NOT to chamber a round until ready to pull trigger, or near that place in time.

What about YOU? What are YOUR views?

 

[whistler]

if you have to work the slide would not the sound give your position away or give the bad guy a chance to react?

 

[Turkey Obsessed]

What about ME? and MY views? Where do you live that causes you to consider all of these possibilities? Here is my preferred "choice". Locked and loaded in a gun safe where only YOU have the key. Practice getting into the safe fast. Get in tune to your surroundings. Listen for odd noises or strange behaviors around you. I can get to my safe and open it faster than I would be able to fumble with a round and monkeying with actions. Pistol beats long gun for readiness, but nothing clears a room like buck shot. back to my original question, where do you live that causes you to be "on guard" all night? Move to a smaller town. You are still more likely to die in a car wreck on your way to or from work than you are to encounter a break-in, let alone die from one. Be ready, but remember that the odds are already in your favor. Get a reputation. Get a dog. I have three dogs and everyone around me knows this...from the mail lady to friends of relatives. Nobody in their right mind would break into my home. My house is well protected with three dogs (two American Staffordshires and a Lab) and a pretty well armed owner with the love for his family.

Gun safe, quick key is for me. Right next to the phone where 911 is on speed dial. Call and leave the line open- you don't have to talk and they will show up....esp. if they hear SOMETHING in the background.

Oh, yeah...less lethal or rubber shot will bring any man to his knees and keep you out of prison. As far as being quiet, I couldn't do that. Loud and proud are the survivors.

 

[jgo296]

i say keep it full and chambered safety on incase bad guy on top of you before you are prepared
if you hear bad guy and are going to confront go ahead and pump it once so he hears that wonderful noise

 

[Turkey Obsessed]

The faults of the 870 is one reason why most law and military purchase Mossy 500's.

 

[flip180]

"In a home defense situation, why would anyone, especially at nighttime, load mag one round down?"

I load one down to keep deformation to the loaded shell to a minimum due to the spring perssure. I know it's a long shot that that will even happen and one should constantly rotate out rounds but evey little bit helps. I'm not too worried about being one round down. I have a 20" barrel on my 870 with a factory LE three round extension. There's six in the tube ready to go. If that doesn't work, the AR is next up in line with three 30 round mags ready to go. Then there's the G19 with a 17 round G17 magazine and lastly the G26 with an 11 round mag (10 round mag with a +1 extension). All loaded up with Black Hills 124gr.+p XTP HP's.

Flip

 

[Turkey Obsessed]

Are you preparing for a war? Remember that humans go down easy (except for my wife) and the deformation created by spring pressure will have no effect on the shot raking through an assailant's body! Just a thought.....one round should do the trick. Maybe two if you are a bad shot or have a bus load of burglars waiting for you.

 

[mljdeckard]

I do not normally say that it is a good idea to keep a gun in 'less-than-ready' condition, but this is a situation where I still have young kids in the house, and I think that having the chamber empty and the slide locked is the best way to prevent meddling from kids who are still too young to teach safety rules. They are too small to hold the slide lock and work the slide at the same time, regardless of how smart they are. The same is true of the M-1 Carbine I keep handy for my wife, with two mags on the pouch on the butt of the rifle, it is highly unlikely that they can open the pouch, correctly insert the magazine, and charge the handle. Let me emphasize that I am working against their PHYSICAL limitations. I suffer no illusions about their intellectual limitations.

While I don't recommend keeping the chamber empty to allow you to rack the slide and make noise to scare someone away, the benefit does exist. In a house with small kids, it's the compromise I am willing to live with.

 

[brentfoto]

Firepower!-

You are the only one thus far to select the first one.

What is the trigger pull on a cocked Rem 870?

My situation - I just have the shotgun leaning against the wall on an angle, muzzle pointing upward. I've done that with my Air Rifle and had it slide down to the floor.

How would you have yours given you have chosen #1, and isn't that selection somewhat 'risky'?

 

[fchavis]

After a range trip or just for regular maintanance, my 870 is completely unloaded. After a cleaning and a function check and then checking the tube and chamber a few times, I dry fire, then load the tube: chamber empty, unlocked. This shotgun isn't kicking around in a vehicle or anything; if it were a vehicle weapon, I'd keep it locked with an empty chamber.

 

[brentfoto]

mljdecard-

With small kids you still voted as you described but with safety OFF. Why?

Notwithstanding your situation with kids, if you did not have them in the house at all would your answer differ, and, if so, please explain.