Polygonal rifling

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andym79

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Hi guys, I have been offered a Polygonal Pac-Nor barrel for a reasonable price.

I understand the difference between Polygonal and standard rifling, but what kind of accuracy can you expect from a Polygonal barrel vs a standard rifled barrel.

Specifically in a 224 1:8?

Thanks
 
I have a bunch of polygonal barrels from Black Hole Weaponry, less bullet damage in light jackets, easier cleaning, higher velocities, and lower pressures with the same loads. I have yet to have a BHW poly barrel which wouldn't produce 1/2-3-4moa with my meager eyesight, better in better hands.
 
Nice to know, so long a accuracy is there.

There are only so many project rifles, one gets to have built in this life and I want to do it right. A part of me wants to go Krieger 4 groove and be done with it. The Pac-nor barrel is $100 less though.

I guess really the question is two fold how good are Poly barrels and how much better are Krieger than Pac-nor 1/4 moa or more?

Which adds a third question am I good enough for it to matter?
 
That last question is usually my gap. I have rifles which will print quarter MOA, but my eyes and skills have faded such I can't usually coax them to do so myself any more. Great days for me are quarter to half, normal days for me are .6-.8moa...

I also should have qualified, the BHW barrels I've started using were cheaper and have shot as well as any shilen, white oak, or Krieger barrel I have owned, but with lower cost, and all of the other advantages mentioned above.

That said... I never want to be able to shoot better than any rifle I build.

Also - if you are really shooting your "build" much, you'll get to pick new barrels every couple of years, or even every year. Some of the top competitive guys end up buying a new barrel a few times a year even. You're not married to the rifle, and dang sure not married to the barrel.

When I buy barrels, they're krieger, lilja, shilen, or black hole (my budget option). Pacnor, bartlein, brux, broughton, lothar walther, are also on my short list of "will buy".
 
I can't comment on polygonal rifling, but I also can't tell you how much I love a 3 groove 1:8" PacNor barrel I have for my 6mm BR. It really makes working up a load difficult, for it seems to shoot almost anything with a decent bullet very, very well.

They have the classic Pratt & Whitney rifling machines that seem to still be used to make best barrels. I consider PacNor right up there with Hart, Krieger, Shilen, etc.
 
Varminterror said:
bartlein, brux, broughton
Click to expand...

What I've read and been told as I was researching my custom build was if it starts with a "B" they are good to go. That's not to say any of the other are not, just that those are usually at the top of the list.
 
Nature Boy said:
What I've read and been told as I was researching my custom build was if it starts with a "B" they are good to go. That's not to say any of the other are not, just that those are usually at the top of the list.
Click to expand...

In general, it seems to be true, and I repeat it in that same manner myself (ALMOST typed that this morning!). Benchmark for rimfires, Brux, Broughton, Bartlien... If I ever start a barrel turning business, I'm going to pick a name which starts with a B just to ride those coattails!!
 
It is a shame so many folks never experienced a premium barrel.

I find it to be the most satisfying of all gun upgrades. I can barely keep a Savage for a month without planning a barrel swap.
 
andym79 said:
Hi guys, I have been offered a Polygonal Pac-Nor barrel for a reasonable price.

I understand the difference between Polygonal and standard rifling, but what kind of accuracy can you expect from a Polygonal barrel vs a standard rifled barrel.

Specifically in a 224 1:8?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Keep in mind polygonal is not all the same, the same way "traditional" are not the same. It might be the same "style" but the actual resulting rifling spec and
profile changes form brand to brand and caliber to caliber.

Pac-Nor are good barrels. They make the noveske barrels that are some of the best AR polygonal barrels one can buy. Pricey but great barrels.
IMO Lothar Walther and Schneider make the best polygonal barrels well known for their quality of materials and accuracy like their LW50 match winning barrels.
I tried other polygonal barrel makers and it is a hit and miss. One can be great and next one so-so as they do not have the consistency of top tier polygonal barrel makers.
I think Pac-Nor is a very good one value for the money.

Polygonal has some benefits and some trade-offs depending on the caliber and what you are trying to do. Depending on the bullets some might work better than
others as the polygonal is not always the same precise design just like traditional rifling is not the same. After all you also have 5R and 3R barrels
that are popular match winning barrels like Krieger, Bartlein, Rock creek, etc...

If this is for the average 223AR the pac-nor will work well for you and potentially very accurate specially if it is well cut and chambered.
 
Hi guys, thanks for all the great replies.

The barrel is intended for a scope single shot. I plan on using 22 Cal (.224) 68 grain HPBT Match bullets by Hornady.

I saw this posted on another forum "Lothar Walther will sell you a "polygonal" rifled barrel for various guns or a blank that can be made to suit about anything. Once upon a time, they conceded that the polygonal would be slightly less accurate than conventional land and groove but would last longer. I doubt it would be enough to matter in a service or hunting rifle."

Are Polygonal less accurate I wonder?

I have also read that unlike HK and Walther, Pac-Nor polgonal barrels are not truly polygonal but rather of a canted land type like a 5R, does anyone know if that is true?

Essentially my dilemma is Pac-nor 1:8 poly vs Krieger 1:7.7 4 groove, the second costing $100 more. What do you guys think?
 
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andym79 said:
...I saw this posted on another forum "Lothar Walther will sell you a "polygonal" rifled barrel for various guns or a blank that can be made to suit about anything.
Once upon a time, they conceded that the polygonal would be slightly less accurate than conventional land and groove but would last longer.
Are Polygonal less accurate I wonder?
Click to expand...

Any statement that generalizes like that w/o any reason can be considered invalid.

There might be opinions about what style is better and whether cut rifling vs button is better but they are just that, opinions,
because you have barrels with different processes and styles providing amazing results.

All polygonal designs are not the same, nor are the barrels nor the materials nor the actual tolerances acceptable by the manufacturers.
Lothar Walther produces match winning barrels used by professionals too. This is a fact.
Schneider barrels that are cut with P5 Polygon design have been used to make Marine Sniper rifles.
David Tubb (world champion) uses Schneider barrels in his rifles.
Does anyone think that they will give anything but the best to people who actually need it?

I think it is better to explain what barre or caliber specifically might be best for a role based on some distinctive characteristics
and explain why, but we should not generalize.

The PacNor are very good value and pretty consistent. They make the Noveske barrels. Krieger also makes amazing barrels and need no introduction.
I would be move worried about who cuts and chambers the barrel than the actual rifling type I choose between those too.

Are you looking for maximum precision / match grade? Did you sent your bolt to be head-spaced with that barrel or they are giving you that option
to send you a bolt matched to that barrel? This is another consideration that might have more impact that differences in rifling style.

IMO for that bore and 223 chamber both are very good options.

Any barrel maker on this list is a good bet....

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/premium-barrels/
 
1stmarine said:
Does anyone think that they will give anything but the best to people who actually need it?
Click to expand...

That is a very good and true point. If they know it's going to a big name shooter the QC will be right upper there and if the barrel is not a 1 in 1000 it goes to someone else.
 
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andym79 said:
That is a very good and true point. If they know it's going to a big name shooter the QC will be right upper there and if the barrel is a 1 in 1000 it goes to someone else.
Click to expand...
Actually the same quality is available to everyone. It is a matter of choices and dollars. I think what makers and shops are going to do is to buy several from the same stock.
All those in the list above are good brands and if they cannot assure their barrels can be the best they can be, they will not sell them.
Ivesting in good machines and quality manufacturing along with proper QC is key to make a difference.
Take the case of Bergara barrels. They knew that sugarless how good they got at manufacturing if their barrels didn't get to the type of quality others had
then they didn't stand a chance at the accuracy game. So the first thing they did was to partner Shilen. That is why their barrels and rifles shoot the way they shoot.
Savage is another good example. Popular bores are going to be cheaper because with volume cost comes down. We can say anything about Savage
but one thing they do very well is the barrels and they have figured out a way to provide amazing consistency for a modest price so people can buy
budget rifles that shoot very well for their price point. Now we see many makers following the savage directives to provide better chambering jobs and other
features on a budget but I believe the budget builders are not at the same level savage has for mass produced barrels.
Whether they are high end, mid tear or budget, consistency is the key.
IMO you will like the pac-nor. I had very good results with them. The 224 bore is a very popular one and well priced.
 
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