Powder opinions

[Mr_Flintstone]

I’ve loaded mostly H110/296, IMR 4227, and 2400 in my .357 magnum rifle/carbine hunting loads. They do a good job with 158 gr XTP bullets, but lately I’ve been considering Lil Gun. I’ve never bought any, but I’m considering adding it to the stable. Have any of you used Hodgdon’s revolver loads for Lil Gun from a rifle? They don’t list it in the rifle section. How does it do? What kind of velocity and accuracy do you get? In the grand scheme of things, do you get any benefit over the other powders I’ve listed?

 

[dobedo]

I have used Lil Gun in my .500 S&W magnum with good results and just about the same as 4227.

 

[243winxb]

357 mag & Lil Gun

Not tried it. Its in the same powder family as the other ball powders.

But *pressure* is very low & requires more powder then the others. Possible misprint? Contact Hodgdon?

On paper, looks like a poor choice for the 357? My guess.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

But *pressure* is very low & requires more powder then the others. Possible misprint? Contact Hodgdon?

On paper, looks like a poor choice for the 357? My guess.

I ran the max load through GRT and it showed in excess of 41,000 psi. It also showed almost a 200 fps gain over H110.

 

[AJC1]

I've done extensive testing with it. And if your willing to come get it, I'd give you the almost full pound I have left.... horrible sd/es even when testing with 180s in a 16 and 24inch carbine.... it's awful. If you need a new powder to play with, grab a pound of #9!!!!!

 

[buck460XVR]

As with any PC carbine, you are loading the cartridge, not the gun. Any published load for a revolver will be the same in a carbine.

 

[Charlie98]

As with any PC carbine, you are loading the cartridge, not the gun. Any published load for a revolver will be the same in a carbine.

Pressure? Yes. Performance...? I beg to differ.

 

[Charlie98]

I’ve loaded mostly H110/296, IMR 4227, and 2400 in my .357 magnum rifle/carbine hunting loads. They do a good job with 158 gr XTP bullets, but lately I’ve been considering Lil Gun. I’ve never bought any, but I’m considering adding it to the stable.

Why? Are those other powders not doing something you think LilGun will?

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Why? Are those other powders not doing something you think LilGun will?

Nope. I just wanted to try it.

 

[bfalcon00]

I second the AA#9 thing. Glad I tried it. I will be testing more of the AA powders in the future.

 

[Show Me]

I don't get wound up with handgun this and rifle that in .357. .357 mag is .357 mag. Max preasure is the same for both. No special secret rifle loads. I just stick to 296 with mag primers . Other options are good and fine for others.

 

[Show Me]

Pressure? Yes. Performance...? I beg to differ.

What does that mean. I'm not picking up what your laying down

 

[AJC1]

Nope. I just wanted to try it.

If that's the motivation then do it... your criteria for success may be different from mine and for the cost of a pound you get to scratch that itch. Heck that's cheap...

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

What does that mean. I'm not picking up what your laying down

I believe he’s saying that while you will get the same pressure whether shooting from a revolver, carbine, or rifle, some powders will inherently give much bigger boosts in performance between revolvers and rifles than others. For example, with H110 you will get a few hundred fps boost when switching from revolver to rifle, but with a powder like Titegroup or something similar, you will get very little, and may even see a reduction in velocity compared to the revolver.

 

[Show Me]

I believe he’s saying that while you will get the same pressure whether shooting from a revolver, carbine, or rifle, some powders will inherently give much bigger boosts in performance between revolvers and rifles than others. For example, with H110 you will get a few hundred fps boost when switching from revolver to rifle, but with a powder like Titegroup or something similar, you will get very little, and may even see a reduction in velocity compared to the revolver.

Thanks. Common knowledge and very obvious result when using slow and fast powder. The reduction is most noticeable when using 38's in a 24in barrel.
I'd like to add that powder is an inexpensive component overall so you can never have too many to experiment with.

 

[OS/N]

For hunting loads 158-200 grain I prefer LG. W296 I prefer for 125-150 grain loads. I don't use either in handgun loads - carbines only.

LG will top out but even more so with lighter bullets. The published 18grns of LG w/ 158 xtps is a good load and outperforms 296. Same on the heavier than 158 bullets. You will get another 150+/- fps using LG for heavies.

W296 and 125 grn bullets is the opposite - you will get 150+/- fps more using W296/H110 w/ lighter bullets.

This doesn't mean that one powder is better than another - they just have different burn rates and work different with different payloads.

I use faster powders for 357 handguns. The slower magnum powders benifit is lost in short barrels and mainly result in flame at the end of the barrel and more noise in your ears plus they put more wear and tear on the handgun for little to no benefit.

 

[GooseGestapo]

The Hodgdon listed pressures are accurate and correct. But don’t let the recommended maximum fool you.
Because of the burning characteristics, an increase in powder charges can give a reduction in velocities and wild fluctuations in pressures. I worked up to a maximum of 17.8gr of Lil’Gun in .357magnum with an 158gr Soft Point and found it to be consistent.
Velocities from a 4” Revolver were astonishing at 1,475fps! However, it’s said to be highly erosive of the forcing cone and cause flame cutting of the top strap in revolvers. High heat too. Guns get very hot, quickly.
I got over 2,000fps from a 20”bbl Winchester M94 .357mag with the same load.
Lil’Gun doesn’t like to be compressed.

My favorite use of Lil’Gun is in the .22Hornet and .218Bee. 3,100fps is possible, but I prefer a lighter load at 3,000fps with a 40gr bullet (12.5gr) With 45gr or heavier, I prefer H110 or #2400, or H4198.

 

[buck460XVR]

But *pressure* is very low & requires more powder then the others. Possible misprint? Contact Hodgdon?

No, as far as I know, it's correct and is the big reason so many folks jumped on the Lil' Gun bandwagon years back believing it would be easier on their revolvers as compared to other magnum powders like H110/W296. Once the stories of excessive premature forcing cone erosion and extremely hot guns came out, most revolver shooters dropped it like the hot guns it produced. I too was one of those that thought it would be the best thing since sliced bread for heavy hunting loads in .357 and .44 because of the claimed low pressure. I didn't use enough of it to see any excessive forcing cone erosion because of how extremely hot it made my firearms after shooting only a few rounds. This was in both PC carbines and my revolvers. I was done with it long before the stories of excessive forcing cone erosion came out. Apparently the high heat was a tradeoff for getting those impressive velocities with such low measured pressure. In my experience, I never got the velocities over H110/W296 with hunting type loadings from it and accuracy was never as good as H110/W296 or IMR4227. So a half used bottle still sits on my shelf, if anyone wants to pay for the shipping, they can have it.

Pressure? Yes. Performance...? I beg to differ.

My response about reloading the cartridge and not the gun, had to do with what recipes to use. You use the same for both handgun and PC long gun. Pressure can vary between firearms just as performance will, due to slight variances in chamber, throats and bore dimensions. Of course, for the most part, velocities will increase with the longer barrels, but this is true with handguns, just as it is with long guns. Accuracy and velocity performance, can and will vary between firearms and why most of us who reload, test various powder/bullet/powder charge combinations in our own guns, to find what they like best. What works well in one, may not work the best in another. For target shooting, I find a combo that works reasonably well in all of my revolvers and Carbines in a particular caliber. But for hunting, I may have several different combos because some work better in a particular firearm than another. One can never expect to get the same claimed performance from a published load in their own guns, but they can expect them, to be safe in them.

 

[Palladan44]

If I ever crave a "performance enhancement" over w-296 loaded 357 or even 44 .........why not push the cheater button and grab the elusive 30-30?

I guess there are states that allow only hunting with straight walled rifle, so I guess I see the growing trend to maximize their performance.

It will boil down to your particular barrel and bullet combo. Perhaps Lil Gun would be the winner by a small margin, but you'd never know until you try.

 

[Charlie98]

What does that mean. I'm not picking up what your laying down

I was questioning buck's post about 'loading for the cartridge...' which he has since clarified... and we are on the same sheet of music.

My response about reloading the cartridge and not the gun, had to do with what recipes to use. You use the same for both handgun and PC long gun.

 

[Show Me]

I was questioning buck's post about 'loading for the cartridge...' which he has since clarified... and we are on the same sheet of music.

On the same sheet of music is a good one . I'm shooting today on land so poor you must sit on a sack of fertilizer to raise an umbrella. Thanks

 

[Charlie98]

A bad day shooting is still better than a good day doing Honey-Do;s... like building a fence.