Powders

Status
Not open for further replies.

Fishalaska

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
49
So when you read load charts in loading books are the powders are listed fast to slow burn rates? If so and the powder you are using isnt listed do you find one on list in the book close to yours in burn rate and use that data?
 
So when you read load charts in loading books are the powders are listed fast to slow burn rates? If so and the powder you are using isnt listed do you find one on list in the book close to yours in burn rate and use that data?
STOP RIGHT THERE!
You can never safely use load data from one powder in place of another. The chart tells you which powders are faster or slower but not HOW MUCH faster or slower. Also, the placement on the chart is relative and usually changes when tested in a different cartridge.

I have noticed it seems the slowest powders are listed first in some load manuals but i can't tell you if all manuals do the same.
 
You use data for the exact powder listed. If the powder is not listed, there's probably a pretty good reason. Check the powder manufacturer website for listings for that cartridge.
If not found, don't use that powder in that cartridge. Burn rate listing is an approximation only, as different powders may be listed next to each other but have quite different performance in a given cartridge.

You really don't want to experience what is known here as a Ka-Boom.
 
NO and please NO!

Listing are in the order the publisher listed them. Why in that order? I don't know.

Burn rate tables mostly give a relationship between differing powders but none of the listings are liner. At best a burn rate table could give an idea as to what powder/s to look at.

Powders all have characterization that may or mostly may not be related to others.

Please only use the starting loads that are listed from a reputable source with your given set of components. I don't accept just one source as a safe beginning point. Printed books and on-line listings (from powder companies and bullet makers) are a good source.

Load with care,
 
Oh yeah, I forgot that part...
NEVER trust load data given to you by someone on the Internet who is unknown to you. If you want to use that data you must verify it for yourself. Like said above, only use data from a "reputable source", for your safety and those around you.
 
Other unlisted powders may fall within the burn rates of other loads you have published data for but aren't there for a reason. It's possible that they produce too much or little pressure to function in a firearm safely. As others have stated- load only what's published.
 
The powder in question is listed for a 32grn bullet but not for my 32grn bullet. I know this powder (Xterminator) is used in this caliber .204 and for this weight bullet. So dont use it?
 
So when we make our own bullets...what powder do you all use? Since your bullet is not going to be listed?
 
The powder in question is listed for a 32grn bullet but not for my 32grn bullet. I know this powder (Xterminator) is used in this caliber .204 and for this weight bullet. So dont use it?
That's a completely different question.

Normally you can use the data for any bullet of the same weight, profile and type. (lead vs lead, jacketed vs jacketed) This is why the charge weights are given in a range. you start low and work up so you can adjust for slight differences in bullets. Yes, you can use that powder and it's done all the time. There is no way to list all bullets of the same weight in any manual.
 
Not a diff question....I was going to look at the burn rate/grains for a powder listed for the bullet I have of same weight and type and then that would give me an idea....wouldnt it?

No different than if I made a bullet and need to see what powder to use.

Maybe I am way off.
 
Please reword both of your questions more clearly so member can better answer them and help you.
 
In your first post you said if the powder isn't listed, not the bullet. I now understand what you meant, that's why I said it's a different question. I meant it's a different matter.

You should be fine, start at the starting charge weight and work up until you find the most accurate load for your rifle or until you hit the max charge.
 
I am using a 32 grain Barnes Varmigator and Xterminator powder in .204. Western powders does not have data for the Barnes. So I went to Barnes and the 32 grn bullet I have. They dont list Xterminator powder. So I looked at the burn rate for one of the powders listed by Barnes that is closest to Xterminator and wanted to start at the bottom of that as far as powder grains go. Xterminator powder is used in .204 and 32 grain bullets extensively.
 
If the powder manufacturer has data for your powder for a bullet of like weight and profile, but not the exact bullet you have, you can still use that data. Just start low and work up. Do NOT find your bullet and data for another powder and use that data for the powder you have. Variations in the bullet should have small results as long as the weight and profile are similar. Variations in the powder may cause significant changes in chamber pressure even for a "similar" powder. Use data for the powder you have and a similar bullet, not for the bullet you have and a "similar" powder.
 
I am using a 32 grain Barnes Varmigator and Xterminator powder in .204. Western powders does not have data for the Barnes.

Most, if not all, of the Barnes bullets are of solid copper. So I would not use data from a load data reporting data for jacketed or lead bullets, unless the Barnes book told me to do so.

If you bought the Barnes reloading manual and still don't have an idea, then pick up the phone and call. Both Barnes and Western have piles and piles of data they do not place on their web site. Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Last time I called Accurate they sent me 15 or so pages of data that wasn't on their web site.

Hope this helps. ;)
 
I am using a 32 grain Barnes Varmigator and Xterminator powder in .204. Western powders does not have data for the Barnes. So I went to Barnes and the 32 grn bullet I have. They dont list Xterminator powder. So I looked at the burn rate for one of the powders listed by Barnes that is closest to Xterminator and wanted to start at the bottom of that as far as powder grains go. Xterminator powder is used in .204 and 32 grain bullets extensively.
That is not a safe practice and that is not the way you should be using the burn rate chart. Like I said above, the chart can tell you which powder is faster or slower but not HOW MUCH faster or slower. The variation can be great.

The bullet you're using does have a lead core so you can use the Western Powders load data.

I agree your best course of action should be to call Barnes and ask them directly.
 
I say buy the lyman 49th manaul, sierra 8th, and Hornadys manual and possibly more read them, do your homework on any cartridge before you start loading for it and if you shot alot of Barnes bullets get their manaul. You can't have to many and if you load alot like me you may want to suscribe to Load Data.Com
 
Powders go kablooey when loaded wrong. If your going to insist upon using a POWDER you don't have data for then please hide behind a huge tree and fire your gun with a rope. Pressure curves can violently destroy a gun and you with it. Now, with bullets it's a different story to an extent. Similar bullets have very similar friction and react to pressure similarly, so if they aren't identical they will be very similar. Varying weight or construction changes that reaction to pressure, but again these can for the most part be understood and figured out with a well thought out ladder test.

Reloading is an art, but it is more than that since your work can easily mean the difference between going home like you came, or going home missing fingers, teeth, eyes, or nostrils. A man can take dead reckoning to a certain extent based on knowledge, but even doing that means that the man accepts a certain degree of risk. With no knowledge of a certain powder you can't even do that with an acceptable level of risk. You have to assume it will cost you body parts. Even the pros use test methods engineered for safety to build their knowledge base before taking any risk be it acceptable levels or not. This is not a guessing game nor is it simple arithmetic. Please leave the big questions to the pros and use their data to build your knowledge base. The little questions are the ones that you answer by building a load for your own gun.
 
The Hornady 9th Ed. lists a few loads for a 26" 1:12" barrel. I'm shooting a 16" 1:7". Am I any worse off than the OP using that for a starting point? Why or why not?
 
The Hornady 9th Ed. lists a few loads for a 26" 1:12" barrel. I'm shooting a 16" 1:7". Am I any worse off than the OP using that for a starting point? Why or why not?
Hornady isn't loading for a 26" barrel, they are only telling you they tested the data in a 26" barrel. Pressure is pressure and the only difference you will see is the velocity. you won't attain the same velocity in your 16" barrel as they did in a 26" barrel. The load data is perfectly safe in your rifle as long as you start low and work up like we all should do with new loads.
 
I found data on Xterminator for similiar 32gn bullets. I have 2 Hornady, Speer, Nosler, Barnes books all of the latest version in addition to factory powder data. I did my homework, it is not like I am throwing Meth together with my own intuition and recipe, I was just asking if there is a more accurate way. I also have some older bools from the 70s and 80s that are not so conservative. The manufactures will even tell you the latest load books are way conservative for liabilility purposes. With fairly new powders coming out, the books cant list them all but I started at the low end since there were 32gn bullets listed for my powder. .204 data is very limited so maybe I will subscribe to load data.
 
No one thinks you are cooking up meth, but your post
So when you read load charts in loading books are the powders are listed fast to slow burn rates? If so and the powder you are using isnt listed do you find one on list in the book close to yours in burn rate and use that data?
was not clearly worded, and so you didn't get the quality answers you were looking for.

Next time take a little time to phrase the question better and you will get better answers. Members put effort into trying to help, no reason you can't put a little efort into the question. :)
 
I say buy the lyman 49th manaul, sierra 8th, and Hornadys manual and possibly more read them, do your homework on any cartridge before you start loading for it and if you shot alot of Barnes bullets get their manaul. You can't have to many and if you load alot like me you may want to suscribe to Load Data.Com
loaddata.com was the first one i purchased when i started loading. there always a load there of some kind for most everything..if your a member and theres not a lot listed on what you want you can contact them and they will do the leg work for you in finfing all the info. they can find on the particular load your wanting and do it rather fast also. just saying its a good source for data..
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top