Just for the record, I'm a PA flintlock hunter and shoot strictly Maxi-Balls and love it..T/C Renegade and it's awesome....Now, I also have a New CVA Optima and have heard nothing good about Sabots and their plastic residue. You can clean between shots at the range without much hassle, but in the field would be a serious pain. Powerbelts are pretty clean, but obviously shoot poorly from a more traditional rifle like a Renegade which is why I don't use them....But what about the Optima? Any thoughts?
Powerbelts vs. Sabots..???
- Thread starter struman
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arcticap
Member
In the field, maybe you don't need to load the tightest fitting or best shooting sabot for a follow up shot on a game animal. You can select a loser fitting bullet/sabot for a 2nd or 3rd follow up shot if needed.
Also, some powders and granulations might create less fouling and allow you take several shots before it really interferes with loading. So try to select a powder and amount that will satisfy your loading needs for hunting.
Or develop a quick field swabbing & dry patch regimen that will remove enough residue to allow you to reload tight loads in the field. It just requires a little bottle of solvent and the right fitting patches and jag, and it only adds an extra step to the loading process. Some solvents, like Hoppe's #9 Plus BP Solvent and Patch Lube, claim to not interfere with ignition.
Checking the Cabela's & Bass Pro websites for customer reviews on the Optima and various sabots that they sell, I came across some useful comments. The Super Glide sabots reportedly are very easy loading although they might not be the most accurate, and the Dead Centers are reported to be very accurate. Click on "reviews" on the pages below to learn more:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...de=IH&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat200005
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...de=XG&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat200005
Read the first review about the Hornady XTP sabots in the Optima:
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...1_49743_400003001_400000000_400003000_400-3-1
These Knight EZ Load sabots are too expensive for me, I shoot cheap ones or buy them in bulk!
:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...parentType=index&indexId=cat200005&hasJS=true
All bullets & sabots:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...712&parentType=category&cmCat=MainCatcat20712
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...=HULN_OS_BLACKPOWDER_BULLETSLUBRICANTSPATCHES
Also, some powders and granulations might create less fouling and allow you take several shots before it really interferes with loading. So try to select a powder and amount that will satisfy your loading needs for hunting.
Or develop a quick field swabbing & dry patch regimen that will remove enough residue to allow you to reload tight loads in the field. It just requires a little bottle of solvent and the right fitting patches and jag, and it only adds an extra step to the loading process. Some solvents, like Hoppe's #9 Plus BP Solvent and Patch Lube, claim to not interfere with ignition.
Checking the Cabela's & Bass Pro websites for customer reviews on the Optima and various sabots that they sell, I came across some useful comments. The Super Glide sabots reportedly are very easy loading although they might not be the most accurate, and the Dead Centers are reported to be very accurate. Click on "reviews" on the pages below to learn more:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...de=IH&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat200005
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...de=XG&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat200005
Read the first review about the Hornady XTP sabots in the Optima:
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...1_49743_400003001_400000000_400003000_400-3-1
These Knight EZ Load sabots are too expensive for me, I shoot cheap ones or buy them in bulk!
:http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...parentType=index&indexId=cat200005&hasJS=true
All bullets & sabots:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...712&parentType=category&cmCat=MainCatcat20712
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...=HULN_OS_BLACKPOWDER_BULLETSLUBRICANTSPATCHES
Last edited:
rantingredneck
Member
I've had an Optima for a couple years, and a Hunterbolt and Staghorn before that.
The powerbelts shoot fine through mine as far as accuracy goes. I've just never been impressed with their performance on game. I've shot several deer with them and the exit wounds always seem about the same size as the entry wound. Not much visible expansion. In one case I had a pretty long tracking session because of this.
I've recently been using the Hornady SST SpeedSabots in 250 gr. (the ones with the funky red sticks coming out the bottom of the sabot). I've not had a problem with plastic residue. I've shot and loaded 4-5 times easily without having to swab the bore. I use 150 grains of 777 pellets in mine.
Performance on game is quite dramatic. I've killed 4 deer with them and the longest track was about 15 feet. 2 of the 4 literally dropped mid stride. All of the exit wounds were nearly fist sized. I had one bullet not exit the animal but it blew up so bad that he was laying right where he'd been standing once the smoke cleared.
The powerbelts shoot fine through mine as far as accuracy goes. I've just never been impressed with their performance on game. I've shot several deer with them and the exit wounds always seem about the same size as the entry wound. Not much visible expansion. In one case I had a pretty long tracking session because of this.
I've recently been using the Hornady SST SpeedSabots in 250 gr. (the ones with the funky red sticks coming out the bottom of the sabot). I've not had a problem with plastic residue. I've shot and loaded 4-5 times easily without having to swab the bore. I use 150 grains of 777 pellets in mine.
Performance on game is quite dramatic. I've killed 4 deer with them and the longest track was about 15 feet. 2 of the 4 literally dropped mid stride. All of the exit wounds were nearly fist sized. I had one bullet not exit the animal but it blew up so bad that he was laying right where he'd been standing once the smoke cleared.
Mark whiz
Member
I've been shooting sabots in my Knight for amost 7 years now and have experienced no trouble with plastic fouling from sabots. When at the range I do run a spit patch between shots, but that is to clear out some of the powder fouling for consistent results - those patches won't even touch plastic. I've put up to 50 rounds thru the rifle in a day's time like this without any loss of accuracy - so obviously there was no "plastic" problem.
I will say that when I'm done shooting and am cleaning the rifle, I do make sure I clean for plastic as well as powder residue. Usually this just includes the scrubbing with a brush I normally do for powder residue, but when I am satisfied all the carbon is out of the bore I then will run a couple of patches of CVA's Sabot Shooters cleaner or acetone - either will remove any remaining hint of plastic.
From what I've experienced, heard, seen, etc, about the only possible problem one might have from plastic build up is from shooting max loads (150gr of powder) all the time. Quite frankly that kind of load is overkill and typically results in poor accuracy anyway. Keep your powder loads under 120gr (preferably 100 or less) and you will have no problem with plastic fouling.
As far as WHICH sabots to use, I've found that Hornady 300gr XTP Mags make a great practice bullet and their 300gr SSTs are super accurate and perform well on game. Like Rantingredneck said, I too have been disappointed by the powerbelts performance on game - I've had the aerotips punch right thru with zero expansion - even on heavy game like hogs, that ain't good.
I will say that when I'm done shooting and am cleaning the rifle, I do make sure I clean for plastic as well as powder residue. Usually this just includes the scrubbing with a brush I normally do for powder residue, but when I am satisfied all the carbon is out of the bore I then will run a couple of patches of CVA's Sabot Shooters cleaner or acetone - either will remove any remaining hint of plastic.
From what I've experienced, heard, seen, etc, about the only possible problem one might have from plastic build up is from shooting max loads (150gr of powder) all the time. Quite frankly that kind of load is overkill and typically results in poor accuracy anyway. Keep your powder loads under 120gr (preferably 100 or less) and you will have no problem with plastic fouling.
As far as WHICH sabots to use, I've found that Hornady 300gr XTP Mags make a great practice bullet and their 300gr SSTs are super accurate and perform well on game. Like Rantingredneck said, I too have been disappointed by the powerbelts performance on game - I've had the aerotips punch right thru with zero expansion - even on heavy game like hogs, that ain't good.
Thanks for the info guys, I guess I need to get a couple of different types of loads and just sit down and heat up the barrel until I get something going. What I take away from this would be to figure out what works rather that worry about one persons problems....and low powder charges are alway the way to go as far as I'm concerned...what good is alot of velocity if you have no accuracy or worse yet, no face....I have a Savage Model 16 270WSM for those shots....Thanks...
Mark whiz
Member
Another brand of bullets I HIGHLY recommend, if you can find them, are the sabots made by Precision Rifle. I know Cabelas markets some of these and you can always order them up from the maker up in Canada. I have found nothing that shoots better for me than their QT bullets.
Here are a few targets to show what they can do on paper:
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/66414501RJKYAr
And their performance on game is impecable as well
Precisions website is here:
http://www.prbullet.com/
Here are a few targets to show what they can do on paper:
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/66414501RJKYAr
And their performance on game is impecable as well
Precisions website is here:
http://www.prbullet.com/
Mark whiz, you gotta love those tight ones...I read about those saboted bullets from Presicion...I guess there ability to reach out and touch something passed 100 yards is exceptional...I'll have to try them...What do you think about the .25 replacement breech plug they advertize, any weight to their story about the 209's blowing the slug off the powder or is it a good marketing ploy? I have never experienced a wild shot unless I flinched from the rare delay on my flintlock.....
Mark whiz
Member
After spending some time on the phone with Cecil at Precision, I came away feeling that I had just talked to someone who REALLY knows his stuff (plus I learned how to end every sentence spoken with "eh" ). They heavily test all their ideas and products, so if he thinks that the 209s can cause trouble, I would tend to believe him. I know his sabots are pretty dang tight in the bore of my old Knight and tend to doubt that anything short of an earthquake would dislodge them prematurely. But on average, the Knight rifles with their Green Mountain barrels tend to have the most consistent and tighter bores compared to CVA, T/C, etc. - so with them it would be conceivable that 209s could move the bullet a little premature of the full ignition. I can't say this is a definite as I haven't tried the .25 conversion kit - shoot, I'm still using #11 caps for ignition on my Knight.
). They heavily test all their ideas and products, so if he thinks that the 209s can cause trouble, I would tend to believe him. I know his sabots are pretty dang tight in the bore of my old Knight and tend to doubt that anything short of an earthquake would dislodge them prematurely. But on average, the Knight rifles with their Green Mountain barrels tend to have the most consistent and tighter bores compared to CVA, T/C, etc. - so with them it would be conceivable that 209s could move the bullet a little premature of the full ignition. I can't say this is a definite as I haven't tried the .25 conversion kit - shoot, I'm still using #11 caps for ignition on my Knight.- Status
