i worded it badly
the .40 is the underloaded FBI version of the 10mm, for use in their S&W 1076, loaded into a shorter case to fit into 9mm length actions
Practicality of 9mm +P+ loads???
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the .40 is the underloaded FBI version of the 10mm, for use in their S&W 1076, loaded into a shorter case to fit into 9mm length actions
LightningMan
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I thought "real"+P+ 9mm ammo is intended for submachine guns like the Uzi. I have seen this type of ammunition for sale on sites like gunbroker and they highly recommend not shooting it in pistols.
MCgunner
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I won't consider +P+, but do carry +P. +P+ makes me nervous, bulges pretty bad in my Ruger and I can imagine if the case head were even less supported. My Kel Tec isn't rated for it, just limited +P use. My load pushes a 115 grain XTP to 1263 fps from the KT. That's more than necessary and, think about it, you're getting .357 2" snubby 125 grain velocity with far less recoil, flash, and bang and more firepower. Really, standard 9x19 is pretty impressive, though. Why abuse your gun, if nothing else?
MCgunner
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BTW, 147 grain weight is a little big to be very efficient in the 9mm case, so a +P+ ain't gonna show much more velocity than a +P. With the 115 and 124 grain stuff, you get a little more pop. That's okay, the gun gets more "pop", too and it's quite un-necessary.
I don't think any handgun caliber is magic. The .45, the 9, the .40, it's all just numbers. I might give a little nod to the 10mm, though, a true magnum by comparison, but I haven't found one that would fit in my rather large pockets. Anyway, if I need magnum power, I have revolvers and I'm usually lookin' for a hog to shoot with 'em.
I don't think any handgun caliber is magic. The .45, the 9, the .40, it's all just numbers. I might give a little nod to the 10mm, though, a true magnum by comparison, but I haven't found one that would fit in my rather large pockets. Anyway, if I need magnum power, I have revolvers and I'm usually lookin' for a hog to shoot with 'em.
There is not a lot to be gained going from a standard 9mm to a +P or +P+. If there is a higly rated +P+ round I'd like to see the stats from the same bullet in a standard pressure load.
I'm not a big fan of +P and +P+. I will use +P in K frame 38s and +P+ in 357 mag guns but don't think much of them in any other calibers. My idea of a +P+ 9mm is called the 357 SIG.
I'm not a big fan of +P and +P+. I will use +P in K frame 38s and +P+ in 357 mag guns but don't think much of them in any other calibers. My idea of a +P+ 9mm is called the 357 SIG.
which is loaded to the same pressure level as a 9mm +P+.
amd6547
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Hard to say what pressure level 9 +P+ is, since there is no SAAMI standard.
I use the ranger 127gn +P+ in my Beretta 92FS, and my Browning HiPower. Following Stephen Camps advice, I put an 18.5lb spring in the Browning and a shokbuff.
When i shoot either of these pistols with this load, they shoot pretty much like any other 9mm load...no extra strong recoil or excessive muzzle blast, cases look normal, primers look normal...and I get the best accuracy of any 9mm load I have tried.
I don't shoot lots of this ammo...enough to confirm function and zero. Then I keep my carry mags loaded with it.
I've shot nines for years...this ammo is probably the best I've found, especially for accuracy.
I use the ranger 127gn +P+ in my Beretta 92FS, and my Browning HiPower. Following Stephen Camps advice, I put an 18.5lb spring in the Browning and a shokbuff.
When i shoot either of these pistols with this load, they shoot pretty much like any other 9mm load...no extra strong recoil or excessive muzzle blast, cases look normal, primers look normal...and I get the best accuracy of any 9mm load I have tried.
I don't shoot lots of this ammo...enough to confirm function and zero. Then I keep my carry mags loaded with it.
I've shot nines for years...this ammo is probably the best I've found, especially for accuracy.
While that's true, .357 SIG has greater case capacity, which allows it to generate more gas to keep the pressure closer to the maximum pressure for a greater portion of the time that the bullet spends in the barrel, resulting in greater average acceleration and final velocity if the load can be designed to take advantage of this.
MCgunner
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I speak of interior ballistics (google it), not terminal ballistics. I do prefer the lighter, faster bullet weights in this caliber, though.
MCgunner
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.357 Sig is great, but I'd as soon go to .40 if I had to move up. .40 is as capable and there are pocket guns for this caliber. I'm not sure I like the pocket guns in .40, though, a bit rough for such a small, light gun. I would expect the Sig round to be pretty rough, too. I'd rather just shoot 9mm or the +P variant in pocket autos. It's plenty for self defense. Heck, lots of folks carry the .380. Standard pressure 9x19 at least pushes a decent weight bullet that will have proper penetration while expanding. A significant portion of .380 shooters will tell you they shoot ball because if the bullet expands, it won't get adequate penetration. 9mm solves that problem and there are 9s out there that aren't MUCH bigger than the .380s. I carry a double stack Kel Tec P11 and it's not a problem. The Rohrbaugh, while expensive, is tiny. The PF9 is thin and not much bigger than the P3AT. For a little more size, you get more accuracy, more shootability, more penetration with expansion. Trying to make it a 6" .357 magnum is not really necessary IMHO. It's already the near perfect pocket caliber.
In my rather large P85 Ruger, a gun that I can count on one hand the times I've carried, +P+ might make a little more sense, maybe, not to me, but to some. However, in a gun that size, I'd rather carry my .45ACP Ruger KP90DC. That's why I never carry the P85, which is a good gun, but I use mostly as a range gun. If I get suspect ammo, think it might be a bit hot, I'll shoot it in the Ruger knowing it won't hurt THAT tank.
I mostly reload my own light loads for range use, though. My Dillon progressive keeps me in 9x19 ammo.Marlin 45 carbine
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ditto 'LightningMan', IIRC that loading is with a 115gr slug.
I have loaded Rem 124gr GS slugs to +P levels over Power Pistol (lots of flash out of a pistol but not so bad from a carbine) and run them in my S&W 5903 with a heavy recoil spring and buffer with good results.
crude testing in soaked wet cardboard stacked together results in impressive damage and a few jacket seperations. don't have a chrono so no idea of fps. really comes out of my Marlin Camp 9mm with a 'crack'.
I've also read that European (NATO?) 9mm is loaded to higher pressure than USA ammo.
I have loaded Rem 124gr GS slugs to +P levels over Power Pistol (lots of flash out of a pistol but not so bad from a carbine) and run them in my S&W 5903 with a heavy recoil spring and buffer with good results.
crude testing in soaked wet cardboard stacked together results in impressive damage and a few jacket seperations. don't have a chrono so no idea of fps. really comes out of my Marlin Camp 9mm with a 'crack'.
I've also read that European (NATO?) 9mm is loaded to higher pressure than USA ammo.
KBintheSLC
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I see no point in running ammo that is excessively hot like +P+ in a handgun. If you need more power, just switch to a bigger cartridge. The 9mm works fine in standard and +P pressure levels. Trying to create carbine velocities from a pistol is always a lesson in futility. All it does it bark louder without any added bite.
LightningMan
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FYI, Found this info on 9mm hot loaded ammo.
http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/pages/ammo.htm
I did find warning against using in pistols.
http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/pages/ammo.htm
I did find warning against using in pistols.
The 357 Sig puts just as much stress on a gun as a 9mm +P+
But at the very least, wouldn't the barrel be designed for and proofed at a higher pressure?
Anyway, .357 SIG may be going up in caliber as in being more powerful, but .40 S&W is a better example of actually going up in caliber, as in bullet diameter, while keeping the maximum pressure the same as that of standard 9mm.
REAPER4206969
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Most .40/.357 pistols are just converted 9x19mm platforms anyway.
True, but some are beefed up appropriately for the larger calibers, so at worst it's platform-dependent.
No. In the US, barrels are not proofed. Guns are sampled and test fired, but not every single one is proofed. Proofing is a European thing.
In addition, people run 9mm to Major power factor all the time and the guns are not exploding. The .356 TSW ran at pressures far in excess of 9mm +P+ and did not have a special beefed-up barrel.
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