S&W Sigma to M&P comparisons

[Picknlittle]

Last night I was comparing a S&W Sigma 9mm and a S&W M&P 9mm. I forget the model numbers, but that's not all that important to this question.

I really liked the feel, weight, balance and sights of both. I asked what the primary difference was and the answer was "trigger". He said the S&W Sigma had a really bad trigger, heavy with lots of creep, and the M&P had a much crisper trigger plus reduced muzzle rise with a compensator.

So here's the issue. The Sigma is $379, the M&P $579. Is there an easy, inexpensive fix or improvement for the Sigma trigger that would not void the warranty? Or, is there more to the M&P that I haven't been told.

I also compared some Rugers in the same price range but they felt a bit chunky.

 

[jay43]

the 579 seems really high about a hundred dollars to high, retail new for 479 here, MA, and I think thats high compared to some regions, same with the sigma, 309 here new, but not to get off topic buy the M&P one its a better pistol and there is alot more off a difference than just the trigger, adjustable grips, there will also be more of a selection of aftermarket parts out there for the M@P than the Sigma, also resale value the M&P will be much better than the sigma. The M&P is not a sigma with a better trigger, granted the look similar, but they are not the same pistol. get the M&P you will not regret it

 

[kenhtake]

You can upgrade the Sigma with Wolf Springs for a much nicer trigger pull. This is what S&W does with their test pistols (nothing worse than torture testing a pistol with a ****ty trigger). Also, a decent gunsmith can do a little work and make that trigger a dream. The Sigma is a basically an American copy of the Glock. There is nothing wrong with it, it's cheap, realiable and a good shooter.

That being said, the M&P is a much nicer all around gun.

 

[bullockcm]

Pricewise make sure you are comparing apples to apples, the bare gun may retail for XXX.XX but I know the M&P guns are often sold in kit form with the gun, 3 mags, case, holster, and mag pouch.

 

[tydephan]

I do not own a Sigma, but I have shot one.

I do own three M&Ps.

The M&P has three detachable backstraps that help you customize the palm swell to fit your hand. The Sigma does not have this ability.

The trigger weight on the Sigma is not bad, especially if you are accustomed to shooting DA with revolvers. The creep is bad. The pull is just real heavy. The M&P is gritty at first. It will wear in with dry firing or firing 300-400 rounds through it. Dan Burwell also offers a trigger job (and DIY instructions) on his web site that makes the trigger excellent, according to those who have done it.

To me, the M&P is a far superior pistol. But that doesn't mean the Sigma is bad.

Get the one that fits you the best. Shoot them both if you can, and decide from there.

BTW...if you're not opposed to purchasing over the internets, Buds Gun Shop has the M&P for $439 shipped. Do not pay $579 for that gun.

The Sigma was selling locally not too long ago (on sale) for $299.

 

[Anna's Dad]

I have seen it posted (although haven't confirmed this myself so, please feel free to ask follow-up or contact them directly) that Burwell Gunsmithing doesn't do work on the Sigma trigger because it can not be improved significantly.

As posted by others, the M&P is superior in many other ways. The trigger is just the most obvious.

FWIW, I purchased both my M&Ps for $399 + shipping.

 

[kenhtake]

Although I cannot attest to specific gunsmith's ability. The Sigma trigger can be modified to function better, I fired several that had good trigger jobs though I do not know what was done to improve them.

To be honest, I have been tempted to purchase one and modify it to use a Glock trigger.

 

[Picknlittle]

Thanks for the input folks. Where budget is a concerned I think the Sigma would be fine and reliable enough for a carry piece. It sounds like it might not be a favorite for target shooting, where trigger feel really comes into play.

Of course this has an impact too:

BTW...if you're not opposed to purchasing over the internets, Buds Gun Shop has the M&P for $439 shipped. Do not pay $579 for that gun.

The Sigma was selling locally not too long ago (on sale) for $299.

Bass Pro Shops strikes again. That's where the $379 Sigma and $579 M&P were. BTW, the M&P was packaged with one mag only as I recall.

Thanks again,

 

[tydephan]

Bass Pro Shops strikes again. That's where the $379 Sigma and $579 M&P were. BTW, the M&P was packaged with one mag only as I recall.

I speak from experience. I bought my first M&P9 (full size) for $570.

Two or three months later my dealer put them on sale for $399 ($432 out the door).

Needless to say I was sick. But I couldn't pass up the deal. So I bought a compact for that price.

Buds has had them on sale for awhile now. They were running them for $399 for awhile, but with the shipping fee it was about $430. They just recently bumped the price up to $439, but they've thrown in "free shipping." So it's about the same as the "sale" price.

Still much better than Bass Pro.

Good luck with your decision.

Budgets play a big role in the decision. I know that fact very well. But I'll say this, and it is only my opinion:

Had I settled for the Sigma, I think I would have been disappointed. I'm happy I spent a little more for the M&P, as it is one of my favorite guns to shoot.

With that being said, if you are not planning on shooting much, the Sigma may serve you well. I have no doubts it will go bang when needed.

I'd volunteer to let you shoot mine, as I don't live too far from the TN state line. But it looks like you're up above Nashville.

 

[Coronach]

I have seen it posted (although haven't confirmed this myself so, please feel free to ask follow-up or contact them directly) that Burwell Gunsmithing doesn't do work on the Sigma trigger because it can not be improved significantly.

Correct.

The Sigma will work. As produced now, they are decent guns with a terrible trigger. If you're OK with that, it will work fine for you.

The M&P is the much better gun.

Mike

 

[mljdeckard]

I had a Sigma. I take every opportunity to tell people to stay away from them. The only pistol I ever regretted buying.

The M&P sounds fantastic, but you know what? In this business, it's too competitive to get right on the third try. FAR down on my list.

 

[SouthpawShootr]

Is there an easy, inexpensive fix or improvement for the Sigma trigger that would not void the warranty?

Essentially, no. You could change the striker spring to a reduced weight (Wolff has a set available). Do some judicious polishing on the internals (there are instructions on www.smith-wessonforum.com). You'll never get it even half as good as the M&P and if you have a pro do it, your savings between the two will evaporate.

The prices you cite are high for both guns. Locally I can get Sigmas for $290 and M&Ps usually for $490 (I was at a gunshow last weekend where a dealer
was selling them for $425 NIB).

I have both and I'll be keeping both. My 9VE has a predictably bad trigger that really doesn't bother me much, largely b/c I cut my teeth on S&W DAO autoloaders as well as lots of trigger time with DA revolvers. It's a bit spongy as well. but I can live with it.

If you're thinking that you can somehow switch Sigma components with M&P, it won't work to any degree that would help (from what I've heard, the only common part is the trigger itself).

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Originally posted by Picknlittle:
... and the M&P had a much crisper trigger plus reduced muzzle rise with a compensator.

I'm by the last part. No M&P model has any compensator. Mine -- a 9mm compact -- does have a pretty crisp trigger, though, and has functioned perfectly from round one.

 

[piranha45]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=286608

 

[nwilliams]

Please people stop comparing the Sigma to the M&P! They are two completely different guns. Yes they are both made by S&W, but the M&P is NOT a glorified Sigma or even a direct descendant. I've put 1000's of rounds through my M&P40 and I couldn't be happier with it. I got mine new for $513 as a kit with three 14rd mags, Bladetech holster and mag pouch.

However...in defense of the Sigma....

IMO Sigma's get a lot of bad publicity. My first DAO style gun was a S&W Sigma 40VE and I had it for a few years before selling it to a friend. I wasn't too keen on the trigger and it was picky about some ammos. However it was accurate, felt good in the hand and was very pointable. For the price these guns are not a bad deal and as others have pointed out you can buy after-market improvements.

I definately think the Sigma is not as nice a gun as the M&P, but a good deal nonetheless. I've seen used 9VE's and 40VE's selling in the low $200's and new ones can be found for well under $400. My friend still has his Sigma after more than five years and still loves it.

In conclussion I've owned both, I no longer have the Sigma and the M&P40 is my ccw, that's my final answer.

 

[Coronach]

S&W would have saved themselves a ton of grief if they would have used a different-appearing trigger. Everyone (myself included) looked at the sigma-style trigger and went "oh boy, here we go again". That thought evaporates once you actually shoot it, or even dry-fire it, but the Sigma has such a dismal trigger that you cannot help but mentally compare the two. It's like mental defense mechanism. BAD TRIGGER! AVOID! AVOID!

Mike

 

[jahwarrior]

the sigma:
-has a heavy trigger than you can either get used too (like i did), or adjust.
-has great ergo and feels great to hold.
-is hard to find accessories for.
-comes in two calibers.
-only comes in one size.
-is not pretty.
-is very affordable (i've seen the 9ve, brand new, for under $300).

the m&p:
-has a light trigger with a quick reset.
-has great ergo, and has customizable grips.
-has dozens of accessories.
-comes in 3 calibers.
-comes in 2 sizes.
-is aesthetically pleasing.
-is pricier (the cheapest i've seen is $400).

both are great guns for SD/CCW.

 

[Hoppy590]

-is very affordable (i've seen the 9ve, brand new, for under $300).

smith and wesson runs a sale almost ever other month on the Sigma. last time it was buy a sigma get 2 free mags, 300$ hot off the line, out the door of thier shooting sports center or any primary dealer.

before that it was buy a sigma, get a free SW jacket.
before that it was buy a sigma..... you get the idea

while iv shot the M&P. i was not the least impressed. it just rubbed me the wrong way.

the sigma i am considering as a 9mm "teaching" gun/ range loaner so i have a smaller, cheaper caliber to teach people and or let them borrow at the range so they keep thier clumbsy mits and general SNAFU's to a cheap gun. in this case its Price, not any real reason beyond that

 

[karz10]

I shot a Sigma while looking for my first handgun. I shot a lot low and left coz of the trigger.

I shot the M&P better, and it felt more comfortable and balanced in my hand.

Despite the grip feeling a little less comfortable than the M&P, for some reason I shot a Glock 19 much better than the M&P.

I was a new shooter at the time, so nothing wrong w/ the gun, it was just me, I suppose.

At any rate, I went w/ the G19, for a few reasons, it shot better for me, I got a package that came w/ 4 15 rd mags, night sights, a tac light, extended slide/mag controls, and a couple 33rd mags (can't get those on the M&P btw). Put a few thousand rounds through it already, shoot IDPA w/ it, and carry it almost daily now that I have the CWP, so all is well.

However, if budget permitted, and it was between those two guns, I'd spend the extra money and get the M&P, it's a real nice gun. As others have said, it's a better gun out of the box, has more accessories, is more versatile, and better quality.

W/ that said, as others mentioned, I've seen the Sigma for $269 at gun shows, and the M&P for $399-$430 at various places, Bud's gun shop for instance...

The Glock 19 FWIW runs around $459-$475 for standard deal, but w/ all the stuff I got, NS, tac light, 4 mags, extended controls, I shopped around ang got it for $603 on sale at Impact Guns, (paid extra $25 ea for the 33rd mags). Or you can pick up a used or reconditioned one for around $400, sometimes at CDNN Investments.

BTW, I also adressed the grip on the 19 by sanding out the area on the grip where it meets the trigger guard, leaving more room for my middle finger, and allowing all my other fingers to fit nice.

The G19 is smaller than the M&P, then the M&PC is a little smaller still, and the G26 is smaller than the M&P C, FWIW...

Good luck either way.

Karz

 

[David N]

Second Run of Sigma

I want to say that my "second run" Sigma 9VE doesn't have anywhere near the 10 or 12 lb. pull that some have mentioned. I don't have a gauge but it feels like 5 or 6 lbs. and isn't that long.

 

[nwilliams]

oops sorry, wrong thread