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W.E.G.
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this one:
"Pre-64" Winchester Model 94 30-30 -- so what?
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SwampWolf
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I think all Model 94 frames were forged, one way or another, but I don't know which is why I asked the question. The answer is not especially important to me but inquiring minds want to know
. My research goes on. dispatch55126
Member
I have a 1928 Model 94 that my grandfather bought. It still shoots great and has a peep sight that screws into the side of the frame.
OK, Swamp, to save wear & tear on your button-pushin' finger, I called Midwest Gunworks who handles service & repairs for "Winchester" on pre-safety Model 94s and asked if the '64-'83 receivers were cast.
The emphatic response was "Oh yeah, they're cast."
If you want the precise steel composition you can dial 'em yourself.
I'll even give you the number: 636-475-7300, but I won't pay for the call. Some things you just have to take personal responsibility for....
Denis
The emphatic response was "Oh yeah, they're cast."
If you want the precise steel composition you can dial 'em yourself.
I'll even give you the number: 636-475-7300, but I won't pay for the call. Some things you just have to take personal responsibility for....
Denis
BushyGuy
Member
i have a model 94 AE with cross bolt safety and i dont think it looks ugly, i think the ones without the cross bolt look "too plain" but everyone has different opinions.
i wouldnt buy the name Winchester from a freaking Japan company, they are spitting on a piece of American History which belongs in America not "tonka" made toys.
it wont be long all the gun manufactureres will be coming form Japan, Tiawan, and China, we wont have any heritage left to carry on the legacy.
i wouldnt buy the name Winchester from a freaking Japan company, they are spitting on a piece of American History which belongs in America not "tonka" made toys.
it wont be long all the gun manufactureres will be coming form Japan, Tiawan, and China, we wont have any heritage left to carry on the legacy.
Kernel
Member
^^^
Tonka was founded as an American toy company from Minnesota. "Tonka" means "great" or "big" in the language of the Sioux indan tribe.
Tonka was founded as an American toy company from Minnesota. "Tonka" means "great" or "big" in the language of the Sioux indan tribe.
beeenbag
Member
I know one thing... the finger lever pin stop screw from a pre 64 will not fit in a post 64, it will fall right thru causing you to have to take the whole action back apart. Ask me how I know
CaptainCrossman
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"W.E.G.
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Join Date: September 26, 2006
Location: all over Virginia
Posts: 4,056
"Pre-64" Winchester Model 94 30-30 -- so what?
I notice several Model 94's listed on Gunbroker as "Pre-64."
So what?
I know the Pre-64 BOLT-ACTION Winchester Model 70 is much-desired due to disliked design-changes that occurred in 1965.
Does the LEVER-ACTION Model 94 also have changes that occurred in 1965 which would make the Pre-64 guns per se more desireable?
As an aside, anybody care to hazard a guess on the value of a 1968 Model 94, that has been receiver-drilled for a scope mount, and is in generally good (definitely not very good, or excellent) condition?"
old thread, but good point- looking over a 1990's model 94, it appears that Winchester backpedaled on many of the Olin-era quality changes later on. The link plate in front of the lever once again hinges on a pin, not a screw- and the screw in the bottom of the plate visible from the bottom is there again, just like the pre-64. Opening the action, the shell carrier is once again a forged piece that was obviously heat treated because it's a dark color- and the gun has solid roll pins in it again. But it has a somewhat odd looking, cumbersome crossbolt safety that makes the hammer bounce back when dry firing it. Anyway I think that Winchester got so many complaints during the 1970-80's, they said "oops" and made the guns better later in the 1990's.
It's too late now, because the model 94 is by-by, it's market share was gobbled up by the Henry, Marlin, Ruger, the high end Browning, and the Italian import replicas like Uberti. There's just not enough market for a Winchester lever gun to make a decent profit right now.
they'll bring it back someday though, watch and see, and they will sell again- the brand has a lot of market recognition and virtually invented the lever action rifle as we know it, they'll wait a while then bring out a limited edition with a high price- if they can get the costs down while still making them in USA, we'll see lever action Winchesters again
just not in the present economy
Member
Join Date: September 26, 2006
Location: all over Virginia
Posts: 4,056
"Pre-64" Winchester Model 94 30-30 -- so what?
I notice several Model 94's listed on Gunbroker as "Pre-64."
So what?
I know the Pre-64 BOLT-ACTION Winchester Model 70 is much-desired due to disliked design-changes that occurred in 1965.
Does the LEVER-ACTION Model 94 also have changes that occurred in 1965 which would make the Pre-64 guns per se more desireable?
As an aside, anybody care to hazard a guess on the value of a 1968 Model 94, that has been receiver-drilled for a scope mount, and is in generally good (definitely not very good, or excellent) condition?"
old thread, but good point- looking over a 1990's model 94, it appears that Winchester backpedaled on many of the Olin-era quality changes later on. The link plate in front of the lever once again hinges on a pin, not a screw- and the screw in the bottom of the plate visible from the bottom is there again, just like the pre-64. Opening the action, the shell carrier is once again a forged piece that was obviously heat treated because it's a dark color- and the gun has solid roll pins in it again. But it has a somewhat odd looking, cumbersome crossbolt safety that makes the hammer bounce back when dry firing it. Anyway I think that Winchester got so many complaints during the 1970-80's, they said "oops" and made the guns better later in the 1990's.
It's too late now, because the model 94 is by-by, it's market share was gobbled up by the Henry, Marlin, Ruger, the high end Browning, and the Italian import replicas like Uberti. There's just not enough market for a Winchester lever gun to make a decent profit right now.
they'll bring it back someday though, watch and see, and they will sell again- the brand has a lot of market recognition and virtually invented the lever action rifle as we know it, they'll wait a while then bring out a limited edition with a high price- if they can get the costs down while still making them in USA, we'll see lever action Winchesters again
just not in the present economy
CaptainCrossman
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Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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Join Date: November 14, 2007
Posts: 13,153
Be that as it may (higher actual quality), like I've been telling my buddy, some day the "geezer bubble" is going to pop, for better or worse (slowly deflate is more like it), and he'll be out tons in wealth due to paying inflated prices on old Winchesters. He collects them.
The problem is, a lot of the older generation don't know how to use a computer, and don't realize that the market has changed on many of the old guns.
member
Join Date: November 14, 2007
Posts: 13,153
Be that as it may (higher actual quality), like I've been telling my buddy, some day the "geezer bubble" is going to pop, for better or worse (slowly deflate is more like it), and he'll be out tons in wealth due to paying inflated prices on old Winchesters. He collects them.
The problem is, a lot of the older generation don't know how to use a computer, and don't realize that the market has changed on many of the old guns.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Actually, the Model 94 was the testbed for the new Winchester manufacturing practices, and the "revised" Model 94 came out in '63, with the "revised" Model 70 coming out a year later.
I didn't know the Model 94 had been changed, and bought a new one at the Post Exchange at Fort Sill, Oklahoma in late '63. The only problem I've had with it is that over time the blueing has naturally worn quite a bit, and a friend borrowed it and reblued it as a favor -- and the bluing didn't take.
I kinda wish I'd gone to a pawnshop and bought a used Model 94, but too late now.
I didn't know the Model 94 had been changed, and bought a new one at the Post Exchange at Fort Sill, Oklahoma in late '63. The only problem I've had with it is that over time the blueing has naturally worn quite a bit, and a friend borrowed it and reblued it as a favor -- and the bluing didn't take.
I kinda wish I'd gone to a pawnshop and bought a used Model 94, but too late now.
SSN Vet
Member
so if the union takeover (USRA Co.) of Winchester's New Haven operation only contributed to the demise of Winchester quality.... how does the UAW owning GM bode well for the Silverado?
Time will tell....
Time will tell....
AKElroy
Member
This is a good thread to resuscitate. I have two 94's, a top eject made in 1974 and a very recent crossbolt safety made at the very end of the crossbolt run. As for pre-63' quality, I can't comment.
I can say the quality of the wood and trigger are FAR higher on the 1974. The trigger is clean & light, and the stock is highly figured walnut nicely finished. The metalwork on both is equal. The trigger on the recent gun is the worst of any rifle I own, to the point where I sent it to J. Earl Bridges for an action job. I am looking forward to getting it back. The wood on the newer gun is birch or beach; not exactly awe-inspring, but it still has that awesome balance & feel.
If J. Earl does his advertised magic, I may just invest in a walnut replacement.
From what I have read, I think the changes in quality from the 70's to today are greater than from 63' to 65'.
I can say the quality of the wood and trigger are FAR higher on the 1974. The trigger is clean & light, and the stock is highly figured walnut nicely finished. The metalwork on both is equal. The trigger on the recent gun is the worst of any rifle I own, to the point where I sent it to J. Earl Bridges for an action job. I am looking forward to getting it back. The wood on the newer gun is birch or beach; not exactly awe-inspring, but it still has that awesome balance & feel.
If J. Earl does his advertised magic, I may just invest in a walnut replacement.
From what I have read, I think the changes in quality from the 70's to today are greater than from 63' to 65'.
The crossbolt safety doesnt have any relation to the rebounding hammer effect, they are different safety devices. Both may be present on one gun, but are separate devices. Many of the rebounding guns developed troubles with consistant ignition and needed to be "adjusted" to make the rebound side of the hammer strut less pronounced, or, as many guys have done, find a half cock lower tang assembly and replace the whole thing. Trigger pulls are generally improved noticably with just that step, tho the rebounding trigger pulls are generally pretty dismal compared to the half cock safety guns. Trigger pulls can be worked on fairly easily, but the rebounders are harder to get good trigger let offs on.
As for as the jap made Winchesters, they've been better fit and finished than anything that's come out of the Winchester factory since at least the early 60's, if not earlier. There's no comparison to taiwan or china. Whether you like things made in Japan or not, Miroku makes outstanding quality guns and has for many years. Handle some Browing Citori shotguns, Browning 1886's, 1895's or 92's, Winchester 101's or others made by Miroku, and it will be apparent.
I don't like that Winchesters quality had been slipping since the second World War, but it's just simple fact if you look at them over time. Disparaging Miroku because of Winchesters slide doesnt make sense tho. I resisted them for a long time because they're Japanese, but the simple fact remains, they make excellent quality guns. You can't buy anything near similar condition in an original 1886 Winchester for anything near what a Browning 1886 costs, and the steel is better in the Browning/Miroku 86's. I only regret I didnt buy one sooner. I've had mine for neary 20 years.
As for as the jap made Winchesters, they've been better fit and finished than anything that's come out of the Winchester factory since at least the early 60's, if not earlier. There's no comparison to taiwan or china. Whether you like things made in Japan or not, Miroku makes outstanding quality guns and has for many years. Handle some Browing Citori shotguns, Browning 1886's, 1895's or 92's, Winchester 101's or others made by Miroku, and it will be apparent.
I don't like that Winchesters quality had been slipping since the second World War, but it's just simple fact if you look at them over time. Disparaging Miroku because of Winchesters slide doesnt make sense tho. I resisted them for a long time because they're Japanese, but the simple fact remains, they make excellent quality guns. You can't buy anything near similar condition in an original 1886 Winchester for anything near what a Browning 1886 costs, and the steel is better in the Browning/Miroku 86's. I only regret I didnt buy one sooner. I've had mine for neary 20 years.
the canidian
Member
I have a winchester model 94 30wcf number 1564424. I was wondering if someone could tell me how old it is and how much it is worth?
This link will tell you when it was made: http://www.savage99.com/winchester1894_dates.htm
What it might be worth if you want to sell it is pretty subjective, and depends mostly on what condition it's in.
What it might be worth if you want to sell it is pretty subjective, and depends mostly on what condition it's in.
It has all been covered above. 64 and later Winchesters were all cheapened. I have a 1952 Model 70 and a 1968 model 94. The 70 looks, feels, and wears like a fine piece of machinery. The 94, while it does have a solid walnut stock, has a receiver of some kind of crappy metal that won't take a blue, and a rattly sound that dad's old 32 WS 94 from the fifties didn't have.
I had a late version of the 70, made in the 90s and it was a pretty good gun, unlike the 670s, 770s and other crap versions made after 63. It would shoot groups right along with the 52 version.
1200s, 1300s, 1400s and 1500s were all cheap versions of fine earlier guns. As a matter of fact, the 1400 was rated by Field and Stream as one of the worst guns ever (bottom 5)...I didn't think they were that bad but they weren't Model 12s, or even Super X's. (I know, theSuperXs are later but they are fine guns nevertheless.)
I had a late version of the 70, made in the 90s and it was a pretty good gun, unlike the 670s, 770s and other crap versions made after 63. It would shoot groups right along with the 52 version.
1200s, 1300s, 1400s and 1500s were all cheap versions of fine earlier guns. As a matter of fact, the 1400 was rated by Field and Stream as one of the worst guns ever (bottom 5)...I didn't think they were that bad but they weren't Model 12s, or even Super X's. (I know, theSuperXs are later but they are fine guns nevertheless.)
GuysModel94
Member
For those of you who aren't old enough to remember Jack O'conner (america's great rifleman) and editor of Outdoor Life; he wrote a scathing article (this was pre-internet years) about the Model 70. Winchester took his critique to heart and made all the changes he wanted. He later retracted his first impressions but know one seems to remember that. There were two changes in the Model 94, receivers were no longer hand milled from steel, they were made from a steel alloy which didn't hold the bluing as well as pure steel. My 1973 out shoots my uncle's 58, probably because the CNC machinery used to make the barrels could cut to tighter tolerancs.
FYI: Jack killed everything on this continent and all the grazers in Africa with Model 70 calibered in 270 Win., who really needs a MAGNUM!!!
FYI: Jack killed everything on this continent and all the grazers in Africa with Model 70 calibered in 270 Win., who really needs a MAGNUM!!!
jim in Anchorage
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So this means I can buy civil war Henry's dirt cheap? Because the original user's are long gone?
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Yep, I do believe a computer powerful enough to run CNC machinery back in 1973 would've filled a large warehouse and cost millions of dollars. If it would've even been possible.
Art Eatman
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More than enough...
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